Examples of U.S. Soverign Citizen (Freeman on the Land) Failures

[Skeptic]

In 1992, last time I was at the Roskilde festival, it did work like that.
The police were there to maintain order and catch thieves, as long as you did not blow smoke in their faces they would pretend not to notice the hashish being smoked.
It worked fine.

That's what happens when you have stupid laws. Police and other people can ignore them.

By the way, it's -- I think -- still formally illegal for an American Indian to enter Boston (the original law passed in the colonial times was, apparently, never officially repealed). But I haven't heard of any arrests.

It would be cool if an Indian would make a point of walking in Boston and demand to be arrested so as to get the law off the books once and for all, come to think of it.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

That's what happens when you have stupid laws. Police and other people can ignore them.

By the way, it's -- I think -- still formally illegal for an American Indian to enter Boston (the original law passed in the colonial times was, apparently, never officially repealed). But I haven't heard of any arrests.

It would be cool if an Indian would make a point of walking in Boston and demand to be arrested so as to get the law off the books once and for all, come to think of it.

yeah, there are lots of examples of those, like its illegal to drive a car through the village of Crete in Illinois, yet i drive through Crete all the time on my way to work

 

[kerikiwi]

how about you get too the subject matter instead of continuing too spew ad hominems in every reply too myself.

not too mention this is coming from someone named Elizabeth 1.

Do you know what 'ad hominem' means?
Do you know the difference between to and too?

 

[Mojo]

yawn.

you guys still have never proven FOTL too be woo or false and never will.

No, because proving a negative is a logical impossibility. However, we can point to numerous occasions on which it has demonstrably not worked as claimed.

It is up to the FOTLers to demonstrate that it is true.

 

[Mojo]

I have explained myself countless number of times, you people just refuse too accept reality. And im not trolling, i trying too help actually help you guys.

the relevance is that the DOI and Constitution was not created by a omnipresence, omnipotent and omniscient god or government or the British empire.

it was created by FREEMAN who choose too live life how they seen fit. and not under the rule of anyone but themselves.

and this means if it was done ONCE it can be done AGAIN.

and thus proof of the freeman theory.

No it isn't, because "the freeman theory" is not that the law can be changed to one that they approve of - it is that it is already in accordance with their beliefs.

 

[Mojo]

grammar Nazi's point out bad grammar because they have nothing else too discredit/attack their opponent with.

Grammar Nazi's what? You need a noun to apply that possessive to.

 

[Mashuna]

more ad hominems? what if i have never even smoked in my life? where does your argument go from there? your assumptions/opinions are really discrediting your credibility.

I think people assuming you're high all the time is a charitable way to explain your posts. If you're actually sober and clear-headed when you make these posts, you have my sympathy.

and just for your information, internet forum grammar is the last of my worries as i barely proofread at all (only multiple paragraphs).

Well yes, that's clear.

grammar Nazi's point out bad grammar because they have nothing else too discredit/attack their opponent with.

Your posts provide plenty of ammunition to discredit you with. Admittedly, most of the ammunition has to be surgically removed from your foot.

So in my book your arguments have now have less validity. just like the 3 other people who have pointed out my 2 minor grammar mistakes.

Is it a picture book?

 

[Elizabeth I]

more ad hominems? what if i have never even smoked in my life? where does your argument go from there? your assumptions/opinions are really discrediting your credibility.

and just for your information, internet forum grammar is the last of my worries as i barely proofread at all (only multiple paragraphs).

grammar Nazi's point out bad grammar because they have nothing else too discredit/attack their opponent with.

So in my book your arguments have now have less validity. just like the 3 other people who have pointed out my 2 minor grammar mistakes.

Something has to explain your muddled thought as exemplified by your muddled writing. From your screen name and your apparent obsession over legalizing pot, I thought (and still think) that overindulgence in weed is the explanation.

 

[tsig]

I'm not here too educate everyone (thats your own job). Im not trying to avoid anyone.I just have better things too do then go point by point on how you guys are wrong.

If the DOI and Constitution have no relevance too yourself then im guessing your not American and then this has nothing to do with you.

the whole issue is that they EXIST, freeman made them real. and if they can do it then anyone else who comes after them can do the samething.

Well there was that small thing called the Revolutionary War that made it possible for those Freemen to be free.

 

[Horatius]

Here's a nice summation of a few prominent failures:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12545818&postcount=28

 

[JimBenArm]

I served on a jury that convicted a man who tried to use this FOTL garbage. He'd scammed a bunch of people, including his own son-in-law, into investing in a bogus gold mine. He might have been let off, since he was an underling of another super-slimy individual, but he insisted on using the FOTL stuff as some kind of proof that the US Government didn't have jurisdiction over him.
Needless to say, it didn't work too well for him. I didn't get to vote, since I was second alternate, but it only took a couple of hours for a guilty verdict. The bailiff called me at home not too long after to let me know.
So you FOTLers can continue to believe in this all you want. You can hope it will work. However, in real-life application with your fellow Americans, it fails, and fails badly. This would be acceptable to me, except you don't just hurt yourself. This fool wound up in a federal penitentiary, depriving his wife and children of a husband and father for no good reason. Maybe you think you're being a revolutionary, but the problem is that you're not getting anyone with any intelligence or power to back you. Yes, being an underdog is all exciting and everything, but at the end of the day, all this is going to get you is an all-expenses-paid trip to one of Kansas City's gated communities. Maybe you've heard of it? Leavenworth.

 

[aggle-rithm]

It's not me who misrepresent the FOTL movement it is everyone here at JREF who does that, as i believe it has been dubbed something like Freeloaders on the land or whatever you guys call it.

Im still waiting for you guys too prove someone can not become free or sovereign. the only "real" issue is how its applied or done.

many FOTL are trying too go about this the civil way in court (without the fighting aspect because we have already done that). however with the system (government/courts) being so far dis attached from its origins it has been shown very difficult to do.

however this does not make it false/wrong or unattainable.

All I can say is...

Oh, the humanity.

 

[JimBenArm]

It's not me who misrepresent the FOTL movement it is everyone here at JREF who does that, as i believe it has been dubbed something like Freeloaders on the land or whatever you guys call it.

Im still waiting for you guys too prove someone can not become free or sovereign. the only "real" issue is how its applied or done.

many FOTL are trying too go about this the civil way in court (without the fighting aspect because we have already done that). however with the system (government/courts) being so far dis attached from its origins it has been shown very difficult to do.

however this does not make it false/wrong or unattainable.

The "Freeloaders" thing you can hang on me. I do believe it was I who first came up with it here, although I am willing to be corrected (unlike others posting here, ahem, ahem). Mostly because that's exactly what they are trying to do. Get something for nothing. Where I'm from, that's freeloading. I don't care how much lipstick you put on it, it's still a pig, son. When you take out a loan, you're supposed to keep up the payments, regardless of whether you signed your name some special way or not. If you took the money, not paying it back is simple theft. At least for people who have ethics and consciences and silly things like that.

 

[Toke]

Freeloaders

What!!!!!

That is not at all what the, suddenly not so nice, lady in the bank told me when I tried to explain how the freeman concept related to my mortgage.

She used completely different words. (Danish ones)

 

[JimBenArm]

Well, then, I guess I'm wrong. At least in Denmark!

 

[Toke]

What I don't get is the idea that people get nothing for their signature on a bank loan?

I got ownership of my apartment, and is living in it. Does it get more real and tangible than that?

Well, then, I guess I'm wrong. At least in Denmark!

Or just a innocent victim of translation error.

 

[ComsatAngel2017]

I served on a jury that convicted a man who tried to use this FOTL garbage. He'd scammed a bunch of people, including his own son-in-law, into investing in a bogus gold mine. He might have been let off, since he was an underling of another super-slimy individual, but he insisted on using the FOTL stuff as some kind of proof that the US Government didn't have jurisdiction over him.
Needless to say, it didn't work too well for him. I didn't get to vote, since I was second alternate, but it only took a couple of hours for a guilty verdict. The bailiff called me at home not too long after to let me know.
So you FOTLers can continue to believe in this all you want. You can hope it will work. However, in real-life application with your fellow Americans, it fails, and fails badly. This would be acceptable to me, except you don't just hurt yourself. This fool wound up in a federal penitentiary, depriving his wife and children of a husband and father for no good reason. Maybe you think you're being a revolutionary, but the problem is that you're not getting anyone with any intelligence or power to back you. Yes, being an underdog is all exciting and everything, but at the end of the day, all this is going to get you is an all-expenses-paid trip to one of Kansas City's gated communities. Maybe you've heard of it? Leavenworth.

Having seen your posts elsewhere on this board, I rather suspect that any FOTL coming before you in court will be heard to say "Oh ****" quite loudly.

Less flippantly, this repeats the patten seen in posts about British FOTLers - they dig a far, far deeper hole for themselves than if they'd simply pleaded guilty or used a conventional defence - with all them corrupt Admiralty lawyers and all.

And they're not even eligible for the Darwin Awards!

 

[Bluekush623]

It is not our job to prove that someone cannot become sovereign. It is your job to prove that someone actually used the correct FOTL words to avoid debts or prosecution. Please provide evidence in the form of documented court cases that were dismissed because of FOTL claims made in open court.

The thing is you JREF'ers are so caught up in your own ego's and feeling special about being skeptics and debunking things that you blind your self from the real issues.

Of course one can not avoid debts or prosecution attempting too be a Freeman. This is Fraud. If you play the game you have too play by the rules.

You have too already be a Freeman too avoid being unwillingly indebted and prosecuted.

You guys just classify FOTL woo with one broad stroke without really examining what it is.

Basically you guys label the bad apples with the good apples and that is totally dishonest and wrong.

 

[Toke]

You have too already be a Freeman too avoid being unwillingly indebted and prosecuted.

Does this mean that your freeman membership card have to pre-date the mortgage in order for you to negate it?

Who hand out the freeman cards you use to prove your status to the courts with?

 

[defaultdotxbe]

The thing is you JREF'ers are so caught up in your own ego's and feeling special about being skeptics and debunking things that you blind your self from the real issues.

Of course one can not avoid debts or prosecution attempting too be a Freeman. This is Fraud. If you play the game you have too play by the rules.

You have too already be a Freeman too avoid being unwillingly indebted and prosecuted.

You guys just classify FOTL woo with one broad stroke without really examining what it is.

Basically you guys label the bad apples with the good apples and that is totally dishonest and wrong.

perhaps you can give some examples of these good apple freemen

because it sounds to me like your saying if a freeman doesnt want to be prosecuted, he doesnt commit crimes, if he doesnt want to be in debt he doesnt take out loans, and i fail to see how this is different from any other citizen

and if you have an example of a freeman successfully avoiding prosecution or loan payments by being a freeman, by all means post them in the FTOL successes thread