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Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

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I didn't say it was evidence for Israel lying. This is what I said:

That's not lying, it's just what happens in the aftermath of chaotic situations where emotions are running high. In the days after 9/11, all sorts of reports were coming out; claims of truck bombs and explosions before the planes hit, for example. As time went on, these reports turned out to be incorrect - but not before they went on news reports and blogs, and to this day Twoofers cling to them like a priest to altar boys.

No, I didn't say the "Al-Qaeda mercenaries" story was a lie; I said wait and see what the facts bear out. You know, be skeptical.

Ok, so I missed that - my bad :(

Please address the remainder of my post?

Should freegaza.org publicly retract its press release and should witnessgaza.com stop using the cartoon?
 
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No nation, western or otherwise, would allow a blockade to be run like that; no nation, western or otherwise, would have its soldiers lynched without fighting back just so it will look good on TV.

No western nation would set up a blockade that bans the import of chocolate, ginger, and vinegar.
 
So Israel is claiming that not only were there mercenaries on board, but they were mercenaries working for Al-Qaeda?
Omission of the word 'considered' from this link is not a definitive allegation of actually belonging to al-qaeda. Its speculation. But oh yeah, speculation is only the responsibility of international media and objective journalists and presented as fact.

Mercenaries that, despite being supposedly "split into organized cells in order to combat the IDF soldiers" didn't manage to shoot a single one of them?
There were several IDF soldiers shot. Its even stated in this article, but either you're hard of reading or just think posters on this thread are inherently lazy.

My money says that the "mercenaries" claim probably started as a speculation by a soldier that got blown out of proportion. Once things calm down and the details get sorted out, I think this will likely be discounted.
Could be the training and reaction of the activists themselves in handling the boarding party that is not regarded the norm for activists.

I think its just wishful thinking on your part that this is the impromptu reaction of peace activists when confronted with an elite commando unit.
 
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i have read only about one soldier beeing shot, the other stabbed or wounded by other things, not that it make a difference.
 
yes it was to early for the IDF to speculate. But atleast they retracted it, Kudos to them for this.
This was the statement that was reduced to Israel 'claiming' these were al-qaeda mercenaries:
Israeli Officials Claim Aid Flotilla Had Ties to Al Qaeda, PM Gives Military 'Full Support'
"Before the flotilla entered Israeli waters, rumor had it that the organizers [of the aid initiative] had links with the al Qaeda terrorist network," Arthur Avnon was quoted as saying on the website of public broadcaster DR.
So I retract that term used on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website, which linked a Security cabinet meeting statement where the term al-qaeda didn't even appear.

So we're left with 'rumors' and 'links to'. So really, nothing to retract if the claim wasn't made in the first place.
 
i have read only about one soldier beeing shot, the other stabbed or wounded by other things, not that it make a difference.
Read and saw interviews of 1 shot in the stomach, and 2 in the legs, about 5-6 soldiers with multiple stab wounds, one with a possible brain damage after being thrown from the 2nd floor to the main deck.

The intention, as you can see though, is to contradict Cleon's "didn't manage to shoot a single one of them" claim.
 
This was the statement that was reduced to Israel 'claiming' these were al-qaeda mercenaries:
Israeli Officials Claim Aid Flotilla Had Ties to Al Qaeda, PM Gives Military 'Full Support'

So I retract that term used on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website, which linked a Security cabinet meeting statement where the term al-qaeda didn't even appear.

So we're left with 'rumors' and 'links to'. So really, nothing to retract if the claim wasn't made in the first place.

ok retract was maybe not the right word.

the Israeli Government considered them to be AQ mercenaries, and now they no longer consider them to be AQ mercenaries.
 
So let's see: Israel did not actually say the person was related to Al Quaeda, but that rumor has it. Unlike other "rumor has it" stories of the anti-Israeli folks (you know, the "rumors" about the Jenin massacre etc.), Israel actually took time to check the rumor and openly declared that it was proven false.

And unlike, say, The Guardian and its belated "retraction" of a blood libel about the organ-harvesting stuff, it did so on its own, without fighting tooth and nail to keep it in its arsenal as long as possible.

It's ironic that Israel treats its sworn enemies with more fairness than many alleged "zionists" or "supporters" of an Israel which "more in sorrow than in anger" savage it with every rumor that comes down the pike.
 
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Have you read the claims from this article and what it refers to Hebrew media (refusing as many Palestinian fanatics to use the term 'Israeli')?

Statements by senior Israeli military commanders made in the Hebrew media days before the massacre revealed that the raid was planned over a week in advance by the Israeli military and was personally approved by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Minister of Defense Ehud Barak. The elite Israeli commando unit known as Unit 13 was tasked with carrying out the mission and its role was known by the Israeli public well before the raid took place. Details of the plan show that the use of deadly force was authorized and calculated. The massacre of activists should not have been unexpected.
Boarding was authorized if the ships didn't divert, as the practice has been for years now. Sayaret has been tasked with this also, for years.

How is the last resort use of force not 'calculated' if its trained for as a last resort. The modus operandi of these naval units has always been the same with lethal force as a last resort if the boarding party were required to, which up until this point, for years already, has not occurred and has not resulted in deaths.

It even quoted the more conservative Maariv article: "we will be forced to use live fire as a last resort."

What drama. Was hoping you would look past the misplaced, sinister allegations in this linked article.
 
ok retract was maybe not the right word.

the Israeli Government considered them to be AQ mercenaries, and now they no longer consider them to be AQ mercenaries.
Just wanted to clarify that the word 'considered' shouldn't have been used if it resulted from a statement that it was a 'rumor to be linked to..'. Guess MFA need better translators.
 
So let's see: Israel did not actually say the person was related to Al Quaeda, but that rumor has it. Unlike other "rumor has it" stories of the anti-Israeli folks (you know, the "rumors" about the Jenin massacre etc.), Israel actually took time to check the rumor and openly declared that it was proven false.

And unlike, say, The Guardian and its belated "retraction" of a blood libel about the organ-harvesting stuff, it did so on its own, without fighting tooth and nail to keep it in its arsenal as long as possible.

It's ironic that Israel treats its sworn enemies with more fairness than many alleged "zionists" or "supporters" of an Israel which "more in sorrow than in anger" savage it with every rumor that comes down the pike.

bull.

the rumors have not been proven wrong. they have no evidence for those claims rumors that were made. but its possible they find evidence.
those "Links" have not been proven, but also not been disproven.
 
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Just wanted to clarify that the word 'considered' shouldn't have been used if it resulted from a statement that it was a 'rumor to be linked to..'. Guess MFA need better translators.

the misuse of the word considered was not on my side, it was actually RoboTimbo. i have pointed out to him that the IDF considers them to be, but that this is actually not a proven fact.
 
For reference, here's a list of links to eyewitness accounts of the raid and several other relevant things.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...st/10206802.stm
Gaza flotilla - Eyewitness accounts of Israeli raid

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/201...ccounts-gunfire
Israelis opened fire before boarding Gaza flotilla, say released activists

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/fi...tilla-massacre/
Norman Finkelstein & Huwaida Arraf: Israel’s Attack

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/m...3546785656.html
Various statements from Al Jazeera journalists.

http://english.aljazeera.net//news/...9114160373.html
Other eyewitness statements

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidG...-Phase Attack
More eyewitness stuff

http://www.theage.com.au/world/batt...00604-x9lc.html
Battle to save photographs

http://www.theage.com.au/world/sudd...tml?autostart=1
Description of the attack

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/n...nesses-say.html
Video smuggled out, people thrown into the sea by commandos

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/...s-to-faces.html
All known casualties

http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/06/th...egy-in-advance/
IDF Strategy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/201...r-gaza-flotilla
British eyewitnesses

http://backotwfthebook.ca/2010/06/0...-boarding/3231/
More eyewitnesses

http://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/rab...gaza-flotilla-a
Rabble Radio #108 - Mavi Marmara attack: interview with Gaza Flotilla activist Kevin Neish

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=21438
More eyewitness stuff

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/inter...ticle444497.ece
Eyewitness from Pakistan

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/kiw...ref=emailfriend
New Zealand eyewitness

http://www.scotsman.com/news/Gaza-f...than.6340319.jp
British eyewitness
 
For reference, here's a list of links to eyewitness accounts of the raid and several other relevant things.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...st/10206802.stm
Gaza flotilla - Eyewitness accounts of Israeli raid

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/201...ccounts-gunfire
Israelis opened fire before boarding Gaza flotilla, say released activists

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/fi...tilla-massacre/
Norman Finkelstein & Huwaida Arraf: Israel’s Attack

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/m...3546785656.html
Various statements from Al Jazeera journalists.

http://english.aljazeera.net//news/...9114160373.html
Other eyewitness statements

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidG...-Phase Attack
More eyewitness stuff

http://www.theage.com.au/world/batt...00604-x9lc.html
Battle to save photographs

http://www.theage.com.au/world/sudd...tml?autostart=1
Description of the attack

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/n...nesses-say.html
Video smuggled out, people thrown into the sea by commandos

http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/...s-to-faces.html
All known casualties

http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/06/th...egy-in-advance/
IDF Strategy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/201...r-gaza-flotilla
British eyewitnesses

http://backotwfthebook.ca/2010/06/0...-boarding/3231/
More eyewitnesses

http://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/rab...gaza-flotilla-a
Rabble Radio #108 - Mavi Marmara attack: interview with Gaza Flotilla activist Kevin Neish

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=21438
More eyewitness stuff

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/inter...ticle444497.ece
Eyewitness from Pakistan

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/kiw...ref=emailfriend
New Zealand eyewitness

http://www.scotsman.com/news/Gaza-f...than.6340319.jp
British eyewitness

holy broken links batman!
 
When will the people on the boat release their UN-EDITED, ORIGINAL, UN-CENSORED, UNALTERED, video footage?

What do they have to hide?

Oh you ridiculous person - the IDF confiscated their videos, and some of the people who were shot to death through the head were people holding video cameras. What you are seeing is largely that which the IDF has allowed people to see, such as the nightvision video which activists say came after they boarded and immediately started shooting people, but shown out of context makes the aid workers look a bit more like aggressors instead of scared and fighting for their lives against the IDF thugs shooting and killing them.
 
In an amusing development, the Irish ship Rachel Corrie is steaming for Gaza, claiming to have on board items "including wheel chairs and cement." Not sure what else is on board, and they are unwilling to stop and verify that it is only an aid shipment. They intend to hit Gaza.

1. Leon Klinghoffer would be amused, were he not shark bait, I am sure.
2. Note, the manifest "includes" wheelchairs. What else is on board?
So, the captain is full of bold talk, and has chosen to go looking for trouble. Israelis have offered to take ship, inspect, and forward on the actual humanitarian aid.

Refused.

So, the Rachel Corrie tries to run the blockade. What to do?

1. Sink it, so that it may enjoy the same infamy as its namesake.
2. Drop a bulldozer on it via fast rope.

1200 ton vessel. Nice sized tramp steamer. Hmmm, tramp steamer, Rachel Corrie ... not going there.

DR
 
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