Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[Pardalis]

hear a lot of you are on board....but.....whats the reason that it can't happen?

Hamas.

 

[The Fool]

When did I say otherwise?

{cough}...ummm....you do understand that there is no Nation or state of palestine......don't you?

 

[Thunder]

so, is Israel gonna insist on a Israel-only investigation into the matter, or will they allow some international observers or even.....my God...participants???

I say let there be an Israeli-American-German team look into the matter.

 

[Pardalis]

{cough}...ummm....you do understand that there is no Nation or state of palestine......don't you?

Nations can exist without a state.

Just look at Québec, or the aboriginal nations.

 

[WildCat]

How about NOT sending in elite special forces who are trained to react with lethal violence? How about negotiating an outcome like any other liberal Western state would have done?

No, we have to keep it proportional.

Like for like.

Shipload of civilian militants vs. shipload of civilian militants. Sounds good to me. And proportional.

 

[quixotecoyote]

editardalis said it simpler.

 

[Thunder]

{cough}...ummm....you do understand that there is no Nation or state of palestine......don't you?

I think he is from the future. He built a time machine, out of a Delorion. But the flux capacitor is out of uranium fuel, so he has to make the train go 88 miles per hour.

 

[The Fool]

How many threads have we done to death on Israel's Camp David offer and how it blows the "neither side (*cough Israel cough*)will make meaningful concessions" claim out of the water? How many times have we pointed to that as a reasonable solution that we would support? And how long will the fool play his silly game of having a spaz attack every time someone refers to Palestine as a nation?

ooops....correcting falsehoods is a "spaz attack" Ok.... you are a watermelon, any attempts to correct that statement will be regarded as a spaz attack.



frankly it comes down to what suits your arguments on a particular day. Stateless arabs morph into a nation or morph back depending on which is best for the argumant of the day...Its a bit like "skeptic" and the israeli-jew flipflop....are you talking about Israelis or Jews...depends on what suits best.

I've got an Idea.....In the current real world there is no such thing as the palestinian state or nation so how about we all agree not to invent one to spice up thier argument? Fair enough?

 

[Pardalis]

I think he is from the future. He built a time machine, out of a Delorion. But the flux capacitor is out of uranium fuel, so he has to make the train go 88 miles per hour.

I really do hope they get their state one day.

All they need is a viable government, and to stop being used as pawns by extremists who only show solidarity to them because of their hatred of Israel.

 

[quixotecoyote]

I've got an Idea.....In the current real world there is no such thing as the palestinian state or nation so how about we all agree not to invent one to spice up thier argument? Fair enough?

No let's not do that because we're honest people of integrity and the word "nation" is perfectly applicable to Palestine.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Nation

1. a. A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country.
b. The territory occupied by such a group of people: All across the nation, people are voting their representatives out.

2. The government of a sovereign state.
3. A people who share common customs, origins, history, and frequently language; a nationality: "Historically the Ukrainians are an ancient nation which has persisted and survived through terrible calamity" (Robert Conquest).
4. a. A federation or tribe, especially one composed of Native Americans.
b. The territory occupied by such a federation or tribe.

All but 2 could easily apply.

 

[Thunder]

I really do hope they get their state one day.

All they need is a viable government, and to stop being used as pawns by extremists who only show solidarity to them because of their hatred of Israel.

I do not believe they truly hate Israel. I think they hate the occupation, and all the **** that has come with it. Once they get their own state, in 95% or so of the West Bank, parts of East Jerusalem, and all of Gaza, and stuff starts getting built and life starts to seem to have a future again, all this hatred of Israel will fizzle away...in exchange for hope and promises.

All we gotta do..is take that great leap forward..and make two states. That's the big step that will take us forward.

 

[mortimer]

No let's not do that because we're honest people of integrity and the word "nation" is perfectly applicable to Palestine.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Nation
All but 2 could easily apply.

And the United Nations agrees.

Article 9
Indigenous peoples and individuals have the right to belong to an indigenous community or nation, in accordance with the traditions and customs of the community or nation concerned. No discrimination of any kind may arise from the exercise of such a right.

http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/en/drip.html

 

[Thunder]

Its a bit like "skeptic" and the israeli-jew flipflop....are you talking about Israelis or Jews...depends on what suits best.

I've been noticing this a lot lately with other right-wing extremist bloggers. They use "Jews" when it suits their point one minute...and "Israelis" the other minute.

Fascinating stuff.

 

[Pardalis]

I do not believe they truly hate Israel. I think they hate the occupation, and all the **** that has come with it. Once they get their own state, in 95% or so of the West Bank, parts of East Jerusalem, and all of Gaza, and stuff starts getting built and life starts to seem to have a future again, all this hatred of Israel will fizzle away...in exchange for hope and promises.

All we gotta do..is take that great leap forward..and make two states. That's the big step that will take us forward.

For once I agree, except hatred can last a long time. The French and the English have been at war centuries ago, and there is still plenty of blind resentment to go around today.

Now add religion to the mix...

 

[Thunder]

For once I agree,

((((((((Pardalis))))))))

 

[fallout]

It's rougish now too?

Not only now, but always, and it follows the roguish style of this regime of bibi and the gang.

The blockade is on all maritime trade, not just from Turkey.

I mentioned Turkey, a former ally to Israel because this aid was mainly Turkish and taken personally by Turkey as turkish. So there we go, Turkey is indirectly being taken as a suspect of smuggling terrorist weapons onboard even by the repeated statements about the fact that the flotilla was searched by request of the ONG at the ports which it passed through.

Please show the UN's record that would make this plausible.

You did not understand me. In fact I don't even get your point on this one.

That's what the blockade does right now.

No it doesn't , the imoral blockade intercepts and is now for the first time killing civilians onboard, and it's astounding they are keeping everything under the table up till now and getting away with it. Where are the details of this murder? Come on, its a rogue estate. They insisted about the flotilla handing the stuff at ashdod through the "official mediums", and all that bull, but the flotilla was an activist act, they intended to show the world how stupid this blockade is and how far Israel can go to perpetrate this delusion about fear of terrorism and extinction. This got old, it's only fantasy, there are many ways of neutralizing the radical part of Hamas peacefully.

Your solution was "Do nothing and hope the UN does something."

Color me unimpressed.

No, my solution is: lift the rogue siege, bring the assassin regime to international court, hold them accountable for these crimes. That with an open gaza and a UN policy of searching ships that head to the open gaza ports ( so theres no babbling about weapons), we can see what follows. At least we would be doing something more humane than this crap, PLUS being able to , this time, crush any sign of a hypothetical "xenophobe terrorist hamas" that would want to take place once these measures take place. The world will now be watching it very very closely. I predict that this evil terrorist hamas that israel portraits, if it still exists, with solutions like that, would be crushed, and the pacifist branch of hamas, which is growing recently, will eventually prevail. We had a statement of medvedev not too long ago ( i will look the link up) saying that hamas' more pacific behaviors is leading russia to be willing to talk to them more closely. In fact they talked to each other, and Israel cried about it.

I dont mean by that rough example of a solution, that all the millenar conflicts will end, and the arab/persian world will completely befriend Israel, but it will be a start. This is just one hypothesis, there are many that can be thought about if people really allow themselves to. But resorting to violent and brutal acts as a blockade , and defending it with this stupidly lethal forces against an international convoy is enraging at the very least.

 

[Thunder]

Fallout- your grasp of the issues is quite amazing. Just wanted to say that.

 

[fallout]

so, is Israel gonna insist on a Israel-only investigation into the matter, or will they allow some international observers or even.....my God...participants???

I say let there be an Israeli-American-German team look into the matter.

They don't have any chance against it, because the UN passed the independant investigation resolution. At least it's what I heard in some newspapers. With the U.S. having the nerve to vote against, the only state who voted against, and France and maybe england abstaining.

 

[Thunder]

They don't have any chance against it, because the UN passed the independant investigation resolution. At least it's what I heard in some newspapers. With the U.S. having the nerve to vote against, the only state who voted against, and France and maybe england abstaining.

The USA has called for an Israeli investigation with American observers. I would like observers from some EU states as well.

 

[Pardalis]

the pacifist branch of hamas

The what?