Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[lane99]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5978559#post5978559

So it's confirmed that Amanda Knox had no way of knowing that any of her roommates, their friends, or anyone else looking for them for that matter, wouldn't have shown up at any moment at the cottage.

It's what I assumed. And leads to another example of how Per-woo-gia File's dogma needs to embrace the preposterous in order to even superficially make sense.

For I suspect most people will accept that it's rather unlikely that a person- in a house that they share with several other people- would murder someone, then leave and not come back until the next day to try and clean up evidence of the crime.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5978559#post5978559

So it's confirmed that Amanda Knox had no way of knowing that any of her roommates, their friends, or anyone else looking for them for that matter, wouldn't have shown up at any moment at the cottage.

It's what I assumed. And leads to another example of how Per-woo-gia File's dogma needs to embrace the preposterous in order to even superficially make sense.

For I suspect most people will accept that it's rather unlikely that a person- in a house that they share with several other people- would murder someone, then leave and not come back until the next day to try and clean up evidence of the crime.

Who says the cleanup was happening when she came back in the morning? Perhaps the cleanup happened after Amanda and Raffaele left the Plaza...

You know, in the dark - so the cleanup was less than perfect and, conveniently, explains why Amanda's lamp was in Meredith's bedroom

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Ummm. SAME substance? That's not known, prior to further testing. One stain on the pillow may be saliva, and the other, say, turnip juice.

///

Let's keep going in circles. The substance needs to be tested. The court blocked the test. Why?

You can ignore the actual subject and keep taking apart sentences on JREF if you like but it's a complete waste of time.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Oh, I read, only my ears start to turn off once I've heard the same record for the tenth time. From what I've seen, it's you that needs to 'get over it', after all, it seems to be you that's desperate to put the prosecution (RATHER THEN THOSE CONVICTED OF MEREDITH KERCHER'S MURDER) on trial for 'something' (anything will do).

Let's get a perspective of that murder, what was done to Meredith, because it's clear some need to wake up -

Fulcanelli.

you should be ashamed of yourself. You really need to take a break. We are all well aware of what was done to Meredith. Most of us have the decency to show her and her family respect. Using photographs of the crime scene just because you are frustrated on a discussion board really shows your true character. There is a time and a place to use this type of evidence. This was a horrible crime so unfortunately it is necessary to view certain aspects of the crime scene to prove points. this was not the case with your post.

 

[Amazer]

Oh, I read, only my ears start to turn off once I've heard the same record for the tenth time. From what I've seen, it's you that needs to 'get over it', after all, it seems to be you that's desperate to put the prosecution (RATHER THEN THOSE CONVICTED OF MEREDITH KERCHER'S MURDER) on trial for 'something' (anything will do).

Let's get a perspective of that murder, what was done to Meredith, because it's clear some need to wake up -

Fulcanelli.

you should be ashamed of yourself. You really need to take a break. We are all well aware of what was done to Meredith. Most of us have the decency to show her and her family respect. Using photographs of the crime scene just because you are frustrated on a discussion board really shows your true character. There is a time and a place to use this type of evidence. This was a horrible crime so unfortunately it is necessary to view certain aspects of the crime scene to prove points. this was not the case with your post.

While I question the need to post such pictures; I don't feel it was disrespectful of Meredith. She was after all not in those pictures.

 

[RWVBWL]

Who says the cleanup was happening when she came back in the morning? Perhaps the cleanup happened after Amanda and Raffaele left the Plaza...

You know, in the dark - so the cleanup was less than perfect and, conveniently, explains why Amanda's lamp was in Meredith's bedroom

Hi BobtheDonkey,
I don't know about your thoughts, though I could probably guess,
but the photo that Fulcanelli posted above from ABC News of Miss Kercher's room sure doesn't look like a staged clean-up to me...
Hmmm,
RWVBWL

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Okay here is my quick example of how easy it was would have been for Rudy to lock Meredith's door and exit the cottage. I spent about 5 minutes on the video. All I really wanted to show is how easy it would be for Rudy to put that print on the floor while closing and locking the door. Keep in mind, there was no blood on Rudy's right shoe. All of the prints in the hall are from his left shoe.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/door.html

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Okay here is my quick example of how easy it was would have been for Rudy to lock Meredith's door and exit the cottage. I spent about 5 minutes on the video. All I really wanted to show is how easy it would be for Rudy to put that print on the floor while closing and locking the door. Keep in mind, there was no blood on Rudy's right shoe. All of the prints in the hall are from his left shoe.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/door.html

I don't think the question was whether or not it was possible, it was more whether or not it was likely, and leaving your left foot in that position is definately not likely, especially for a guy who never used that lock before, probally didn't even know what key it was and probally didn't even know if he even had the right keys to begin with.

Sorry, but that doesn't convince me one bit. But full marks for a valiant try.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

I don't think the question was whether or not it was possible, it was more whether or not it was lkely, and leaving your left foot in that position is definately not likely, especially for a guy who never used that lock before, probally didn't even know what key it was and probally didn't even know if he even had the right keys to begin with.

Sorry, but that doesn't convince me one bit. But full marks for a valiant try.

There has been repeated discussion that Rudy would have had to close the door behind his back or would have had to twist in an awkward motion. It is simply not the case.

The door had a very simple lock and key. Why would the type of door affect his foot pattern?

Like I said, the evidence proves it was possible. There is no evidence whatsoever that Amanda or Raffaele locked the door. All of the prints on the floor, set in Meredith's blood belong to Rudy Guede.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Like I said, the evidence proves it was possible. There is no evidence whatsoever that Amanda or Raffaele locked the door. All of the prints on the floor, set in Meredith's blood belong to Rudy Guede.

But there is even less evidence that Rudy locked it because of the prints he left. I also though Amanda had a bare footprint revealed with luninal pointed right at Meredith's door, exactly where you would expect one to be if she locked it.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

But there is even less evidence that Rudy locked it because of the prints he left. I also though Amanda had a bare footprint revealed with luninal pointed right at Meredith's door, exactly where you would expect one to be if she locked it.

You give more weight to an undated print found with luminol than you give to visible prints set in blood?

Do you honestly know how many people walked on that floor before any evidence was collected? None of the evidence on the floor is reliable in proving exact movements. We do know that Rudy left bloody shoe prints on the floor.

If you choose to believe that Amanda hopped around the cottage on one foot and only put her foot covered in blood down on the floor one time to lock the door then that is your right. It is not a very logical position to take.

Keep in mind, there is no proof that the print discovered with luminol belongs to Amanda. There is also no proof that the print was made from blood.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

You give more weight to an undated print found with luminol than you give to visible prints set in blood?

Do you honestly know how many people walked on that floor before any evidence was collected? None of the evidence on the floor is reliable in proving exact movements. We do know that Rudy left bloody shoe prints on the floor.

If you choose to believe that Amanda hopped around the cottage on one foot and only put her foot covered in blood down on the floor one time to lock the door then that is your right. It is not a very logical position to take.

Keep in mind, there is no proof that the print discovered with luminol belongs to Amanda. There is also no proof that the print was made from blood.

I don't want to argue, just disagree, the print in front of Meredith's door regardless if Amanda's or not, is in the correct position to lock the door, where as Rudy's is not - the luminal print in front of the door cannot be Rudy's, it's barefoot

Amanda dosn't have to hop on one foot, she only had to have blood, or turnip juice on one foot and yes, maybe it was left a week before the murder, I'm just saying, its pointed right where you would expect it to be, if you were locking the door. Thats where Rudy's should have been also, if he had locked the door.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

I don't want to argue, just disagree, the print in front of Meredith's door regardless if Amanda's or not, is in the correct position to lock the door, where as Rudy's is not - the luminal print in front of the door cannot be Rudy's, it's barefoot

Amanda dosn't have to hop on one foot, she only had to have blood, or turnip juice on one foot and yes, maybe it was left a week before the murder, I'm just saying, its pointed right where you would expect it to be, if you were locking the door. Thats where Rudy's should have been also, if he had locked the door.

There are many things that glow from luminol. Not only blood and turnip juice. I know you like to use turnip juice because is sounds so unreasonable. The truth is, if I came to your house and sprayed your floor there is an excellent chance that I would get reactions with luminol.

The luminol prints are completely unreliable. The foot prints from the other residents were not compared for size. The shape is not definitive on luminol prints. The stains were not proven to be blood.

Amanda would have had to hop around to achieve your theory. Where would she have stepped in blood so that she could put one print on the floor facing the door? With your theory, either a very improbable clean up occurred that removed some prints completely, left others to be detected with luminol without disrupting the prints left in blood or Amanda hopped around on one foot.

 

[Mary_H]

Okay here is my quick example of how easy it was would have been for Rudy to lock Meredith's door and exit the cottage. I spent about 5 minutes on the video. All I really wanted to show is how easy it would be for Rudy to put that print on the floor while closing and locking the door. Keep in mind, there was no blood on Rudy's right shoe. All of the prints in the hall are from his left shoe.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/door.html

Thanks, Bruce; yes, that is exactly how I imagined it. Why did Fulcanelli say the footprint at the hinge end of the door was a right footprint?

 

[Mary_H]

I don't want to argue, just disagree, the print in front of Meredith's door regardless if Amanda's or not, is in the correct position to lock the door, where as Rudy's is not - the luminal print in front of the door cannot be Rudy's, it's barefoot

Amanda dosn't have to hop on one foot, she only had to have blood, or turnip juice on one foot and yes, maybe it was left a week before the murder, I'm just saying, its pointed right where you would expect it to be, if you were locking the door. Thats where Rudy's should have been also, if he had locked the door.

Amanda walked on blood in her bare feet, both going into and coming out of the bathrooom.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Thanks, Bruce; yes, that is exactly how I imagined it. Why did Fulcanelli say the footprint at the hinge end of the door was a right footprint?

Fulcanelli was wrong. Rudy had blood on the sole of his left shoe.

 

[Mary_H]

OLD public knowledge. This stuff was public knowledge MONTHS ago. Yet, it appears certain people have only just heard about it. Clearly, they don't know nearly as much about this case as they thought they did. Not that that ever stopped them opining...with certainty.

Yes, it is a relatively old topic, but such an interesting one that it is very mysterious it hasn't been talked about more. I noticed on perugiamurderfiles, for example, that one of the moderators (a certain "Michael") brought it up way back around the end of November. One of the posters (jfk1191) then responded:

Whose semen and why wasn't this tested earlier?

I'll assume it's not Raffaele's as it's his lawyer who brings this up. Obviously it's Rudy's, I will bet. And it's no surprise to anyone Rudy had no date with Meredith, there was no consensual sex. So what will semen of Rudy prove that we don't already know?

Maybe the semen, if someone else, is a strong enough piece of evidence for Massei to continue reviewing evidence of the crime scene. I never did understand Massei's hurry to close the trial.

"Michael," the moderator who brought it up, replies to jfk1191:

JFK, have you not been following past discussion on this board? Raffaele's expert apparently found a small stain on Meredith's pillow which flouresced under ultra violet. Semen will flouresce, so he claimed it may be semen. However, he never tested it to see whether it was semen or not. Other things will also flouresce, such as make-up, vaseline and even urine, so a test would need to be done. Neither was the stain dated and I don't see how it can be. And 'IF' it 'IS' semen, there is a good chance it may be Raffaele's which is probably the reason why the defence didn't actually test it for semen and DNA.

Why does that all sound so familiar? Oh, I know! Because it is almost exactly the same thing Fulcanelli wrote on THIS board earlier today.

A little later on the PMF thread, the other moderator (one "Skeptical Bystander") fairly bites jfk1191's head off:

You're joking, right? We have heard nothing but complaints from the American defendant's family and friends about how long this process is being dragged out. Now you want to blame the judge for being in a hurry to end it? Is that too part of some larger conspiracy?

Later on the page, jfk1191 raise some more excellent questions (like the ones we have been raising today); Skeptical Bystander again implies jfk1191 is a conspiracy theorist and virtually tells him to shut up.

There is more to this intriguing exchange at http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=180&start=2500

(XII. MAIN DISCUSSION, Oct 9 - Dec 9, 2009)

In the case of that discussion, back in November, "Michael," with the help of "Skeptical Bystander," seems to have been able to nip the conversation in the bud very quickly, without having to throw a bloody-photograph tantrum onto the page in an effort to get people to drop the subject. Apparently, it was the last time that topic was discussed on PMF. (We don't see much of jfk1191 after that, either.)

Now, from what I have been given to understand, this "Michael" from PMF, just like our own Fulcanelli, has some insider connections to people actually working on the case in Perugia. If I didn't know better, I would say "Michael" and Fulcanelli may know something about this semen stain that they don't want other people to know.

Very curious, indeed.

 

[Mary_H]

Fulcanelli was wrong. Rudy had blood on the sole of his left shoe.

NO!

 

[Fiona]

Well I don't find it very interesting, but clearly I am in a minority. I dont find it interesting because there are no facts on which to reach any conclusions. It is like a rorschasch ink blot.

 

[Mary_H]

Bloody photo

If you can't handle criticism of the police or difference of opinion, then you really need to go to another forum. Shamelessly posting a bloody picture so people will somehow suddenly side with you (or somehow deflect on the fact that you made stuff up) is just pathological on your part. Shamelessly posting that doesn't cover up the fact that you lied.

This is an excellent post.