Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[HumanityBlues]

I have a problem characterising that stain as anything specific either. I do object to characterising the collection or assessment of evidence as incompetent. I haven't read the estimated 10,000+ pages of evidence nor any of the primary sources regarding the cottage investigation.

There may be any number of different reasons the defence is asking for some sort of testing to be done but it seems they keep doing this after the fact. They declined to attend testing sessions and complained about it later. They had an official request for a recess allowed yet two weeks later complained that they actually meant they didn't have the correct files.

The Pillow Case Caper simply looks like another similar tactic. And of course sitting here thousands of kilometres away without one iota of the primary investigative data (which would be in the wrong language anyhow) I can't see how we can judge the relevance of the request.

Maybe this one is finally the smoking gun that will set Amanda free. I guess we'll find out on appeal.

Look, all I'm saying is, if they test it, and turns out to be Rudy Guede's semen (or even Raffaele's), the prosecution and the investigators are going to look really bad regardless of any alleged misconduct or stalling tactics on part of the defense. They would look really really bad.

 

[Danceme]

In another article Frank elaborates a little more on the possible semen stains;

"Walter Biscotti expressed himself about the semen hypothesis, which recently emerged from silence: I've been waiting for one year for them to ask for the test but they didn't. Same thing with Raffaele, I wonder why he never gave evidence. It can't be sperm on the pillow. Not from that day, not from Rudi, who just touched Meredith. Let's remember that someone has been cleaning there, so it may be a mixture of water and something else.
As we know it seems that the semen dilemma will not appear in the trial of Amanda and Raffaele, we'll see if it will show up at Rudi's trial. No way his defense will propose it. It's up to Meredith's representative."

Why is everyone so reluctant to test it? If Rafaelle's lawyers are convinced of his innocence they should have no qualms about having this done. I suspect they are not so convinced.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

crimescopes and related devices

I did a little bit of research into crimescopes and related devices and how they detected semen. Semen fluoresces when excited with light between 300-480 nm in wavelength, according to the second link below.
http://projects.nfstc.org/workshops... the Detection of Semen Stains on Fabrics.pdf

The paper above (Kobus, HJ, et al., J Forensic Sci, July 2002, Vol. 47, No. 4) states, “Over the past few years the “Polilight” has been used routinely in the authors’ laboratory for the detection of dried semen stains in sexual assault cases. The technique is used as a screening method to target suitable areas for acid phosphatase testing and subsequent DNA analysis.” It also lists another paper as a reference, possibly the first one for detection of semen by fluorescence: 1. Stoilovic M. Detection of semen and bloodstains using the Polilight as a light source. Forensic Sci Int 1991;51:289–96.

The senior author of this paper is also known in DNA forensic circles:
http://projects.nfstc.org/workshops...of Polilights in the Detection of Seminal.pdf

Below is some information from two manufacturers. The Carabinieri bought 107 of the crimescopes recently.

http://www.crimescope.com/
Typical applications of our Forensic Lights:
Fluorescence (Ultraviolet, all Visible wavelengths, Infrared),
Reflectance, Absorption used for: Latent fingerprint identification, Crime Scene Search and evidence collection, Forensic photography and imaging, forged/questioned documents, counterfeit, biology & serology (detection of semen, blood(in natural absorption mode at 415nm or in fluorescence mode after treatment with the Fluorescein spray), saliva, vaginal fluids, sweat, feces…), footprint, gun shot residues, bruises, bite marks, fibers and hair, bone fragments.

FLS Selection:
Our Forensic light sources, CrimeScope, Mini-CrimeScope and HandScope are manufactured in Edison, NJ, USA by JY Inc. SPEX Forensics Division. They are the ultimate units in their categories featuring the most wavelengths and highest intensity (best sensitivity in searching mode). Over the past 6 years 
SPEX Forensics has become the worldwide leader in FLS with the purchase of
50 units by the National Japanese police, 140 units by the FBI, 25 units by the French Gendarmerie, and more recently 107 units by the Italian Carabinieri. There are more than 1000 units in use worldwide by police forces ranging from small City Police Dept’s to counties, state and special crime scene forces to national and federal police agencies. (Note the FBI can not endorse any particular brand)

http://www.horiba.com/scientific/pr...t-sources/forensic-light-source-applications/
Body Fluids
Since body fluids like semen, saliva, and vaginal fluids are naturally fluorescent, the use of a light source offers a unique method for locating them. A crime scene investigator can narrow down the specific locations of stains for collection instead of testing entire, large pieces of evidence such as a mattress, a carpet, a sheet, an article of clothing, etc.. The dried body fluids will actually glow under the light source illumination. Although the body fluids will fluoresce under an ordinary UV black light, many articles on which you would find them including clothing and sheets will also glow and deter their detection. It is therefore necessary to tune to visible color bands (wavelengths) to eliminate the background interference. Considering you will be searching for body fluids on high profile, capital crime cases, the more body fluid evidence you can reveal the better. Again, the more powerful and more tunable your light source, the more evidence you will uncover.

 

[HumanityBlues]

In another article Frank elaborates a little more on the possible semen stains;

"Walter Biscotti expressed himself about the semen hypothesis, which recently emerged from silence: I've been waiting for one year for them to ask for the test but they didn't. Same thing with Raffaele, I wonder why he never gave evidence. It can't be sperm on the pillow. Not from that day, not from Rudi, who just touched Meredith. Let's remember that someone has been cleaning there, so it may be a mixture of water and something else.
As we know it seems that the semen dilemma will not appear in the trial of Amanda and Raffaele, we'll see if it will show up at Rudi's trial. No way his defense will propose it. It's up to Meredith's representative."

Why is everyone so reluctant to test it? If Rafaelle's lawyers are convinced of his innocence they should have no qualms about having this done. I suspect they are not so convinced.

It can be twofold from what Frank wrote. One, it could actually be Raffaele's, or two, it could not be Raffaele's but show up as his because of contamination (Frank's words, not mine, from what you posted earlier). Both would be legitimate worries for a defense attorney.

 

[stilicho]

Look, all I'm saying is, if they test it, and turns out to be Rudy Guede's semen (or even Raffaele's), the prosecution and the investigators are going to look really bad regardless of any alleged misconduct or stalling tactics on part of the defense. They would look really really bad.

So we really should wait for the results of the tests or the response by the court.

 

[Danceme]

It can be twofold from what Frank wrote. One, it could actually be Raffaele's, or two, it could not be Raffaele's but show up as his because of contamination (Frank's words, not mine, from what you posted earlier). Both would be legitimate worries for a defense attorney.

However if the defense had it tested presumably they could use any lab they want, one which had not tested anything of the murder of Meredith. There would be no contamination.

 

[HumanityBlues]

So we really should wait for the results of the tests or the response by the court.

Do you think they'll grant it?

 

[Danceme]

So we really should wait for the results of the tests or the response by the court.

Somebody has to test it. The cat is out of the bag, it's public knowledge that these stains were found. I can see no solution but to test it and it may very well take Maresca to request it.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Was there a previous time the cottage was awash with blood that the court (and it would seem, the house mates too) weren't aware of?

If the defence want the pillow tested, then tell them to go and test it. Nothing's stopping them, just like it never was before.


I'm sorry, where do you get this Rudy 'shoe print smeared semen' stuff from? Where do you even get semen from? And no, this isn't a birds and the bees question. There is no evidence of semen in Meredith's room or on any of the evidence.

I typed my statement in a hurry. The same substance that was found to possibly be semen was also found smeared in one of Rudy's shoe prints. If the substance tests positive for semen, then the shoe print would date that substance to the time of the murder.

This substance needs to be tested

 

[Fulcanelli]

Get over it. That you don't read isn't my fault. I never said it was semen. You lied and said you knew what it was and are going into hysterics over it. Don't lie and you won't have to get defensive. If you're saying I'm accusing you of lying, I'm definitely not. You did lie. And it wasn't the first time. No accusation necessary. Moving right along.

Oh, I read, only my ears start to turn off once I've heard the same record for the tenth time. From what I've seen, it's you that needs to 'get over it', after all, it seems to be you that's desperate to put the prosecution (RATHER THEN THOSE CONVICTED OF MEREDITH KERCHER'S MURDER) on trial for 'something' (anything will do).

Let's get a perspective of that murder, what was done to Meredith, because it's clear some need to wake up -

NSFW - Link contains graphic content

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=21&image_id=1329

Edited by Locknar: 

Edited, breach of Rules 2 & 5.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I typed my statement in a hurry. The same substance that was found to possibly be semen was also found smeared in one of Rudy's shoe prints. If the substance tests positive for semen, then the shoe print would date that substance to the time of the murder.

This substance needs to be tested

Cite, please.

 

[HumanityBlues]

Oh, I read, only my ears start to turn off once I've heard the same record for the tenth time. From what I've seen, it's you that needs to 'get over it', after all, it seems to be you that's desperate to put the prosecution (RATHER THEN THOSE CONVICTED OF MEREDITH KERCHER'S MURDER) on trial for 'something' (anything will do).

Let's get a perspective of that murder, what was done to Meredith, because it's clear some need to wake up -

NSFW - Link contains graphic content

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=21&image_id=1329

If you can't handle criticism of the police or difference of opinion, then you really need to go to another forum. Shamelessly posting a bloody picture so people will somehow suddenly side with you (or somehow deflect on the fact that you made stuff up) is just pathological on your part. Shamelessly posting that doesn't cover up the fact that you lied.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Look, all I'm saying is, if they test it, and turns out to be Rudy Guede's semen (or even Raffaele's), the prosecution and the investigators are going to look really bad regardless of any alleged misconduct or stalling tactics on part of the defense. They would look really really bad.

Well, have the defence test it. If it turns out to be semen, then the police look bad. Okay by you?

 

[Danceme]

Was there a previous time the cottage was awash with blood that the court (and it would seem, the house mates too) weren't aware of?

If the defence want the pillow tested, then tell them to go and test it. Nothing's stopping them, just like it never was before.


I'm sorry, where do you get this Rudy 'shoe print smeared semen' stuff from? Where do you even get semen from? And no, this isn't a birds and the bees question. There is no evidence of semen in Meredith's room or on any of the evidence.

It's on Frank's site. There's a small picture titled, Exclusive. The picture that proves that the substance is crime-related It shows a portion of a shoe print on the pillow with a similar glow to portions of it under the crimescope, perhaps indicating semen was on the bottom of the shoe when he stepped on the pillow case or semen was on the pillow and he stepped on it, smearing it.

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/10/defensive-strategy-for-knox-and.html

 

[HumanityBlues]

Well, have the defence test it. If it turns out to be semen, then the police look bad. Okay by you?

I'm sure they would be happy to test it. Have you not been reading? They were denied a request to have it tested and you thought that was just great, oh faux seeker of truth.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Somebody has to test it. The cat is out of the bag, it's public knowledge that these stains were found. I can see no solution but to test it and it may very well take Maresca to request it.

OLD public knowledge. This stuff was public knowledge MONTHS ago. Yet, it appears certain people have only just heard about it. Clearly, they don't know nearly as much about this case as they thought they did. Not that that ever stopped them opining...with certainty.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

It's on Frank's site. There's a small picture titled, Exclusive. The picture that proves that the substance is crime-related It shows a portion of a shoe print on the pillow with a similar glow to portions of it under the crimescope, perhaps indicating semen was on the bottom of the shoe when he stepped on the pillow case or semen was on the pillow and he stepped on it, smearing it.

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/10/defensive-strategy-for-knox-and.html

That's even worse than when Bruce, et al, exclaim that luminol is not a definitive test for blood.

A light source is not a definitive test for semen, in fact - it reflects any bodily fluids...Thus it's more likely to show more "false positives" for semen than luminol would for blood (unless you have a place where people have been routinely flinging feces at each other/walking around in turnip (or fruit) juice/working in an iron mill...)

Double standard when it comes to what's allowed to be assumed. Apparently it's O.K. to do given that it's in defense of Amanda/Raffaele...somehow...

I still don't get the significance of the pillowcase. If it shows Raffaele's DNA, everyone on the Pro-Amanda team will scream "contamination!". If it doesn't, then it merely proves Rudy was involved - which is uncontested by everyone but, well, himself and his attorney(s), but does nothing to alleviate the evidence against Amanda/Raffaele. Even if it shows a 4th unknown person's DNA, it does nothing to alleviate the rest of the evidence against Raffaele/Amanda. This is why the Defense has nothing to gain by testing the stain, thus it's reasonable to assume the Defense has no intention of having the stain tested for it can only hurt their case.

So, what, exactly is the significance of this pillowcase? It will show nothing, that any one of the 3 suspects is most definitely guilty, or that there was a 4th person involved. It does not, however, affect the rest of the evidence against Amanda/Raffaele/Rudy.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Cite, please.

We have the crimescope photos to show that the substance is possibly semen. One of the shoe prints shows the same substance. This is not a new story. Frank put the photos on his blog a long time ago. It is coming up again because this is one of the points that will be addressed during the appeal.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

We have the crimescope photos to show that the substance is possibly semen. One of the shoe prints shows the same substance. This is not a new story. Frank put the photos on his blog a long time ago. It is coming up again because this is one of the points that will be addressed during the appeal. The court refused to test those stains. What were they trying to hide?

If, perhaps, both stains were made in vaseline, would they not both show the same under the light?

So, really, there's no evidence to support either stain definitively being made in semen as you claimed earlier.

 

[Fine]

We have the crimescope photos to show that the substance is possibly semen. One of the shoe prints shows the same substance. This is not a new story. Frank put the photos on his blog a long time ago. It is coming up again because this is one of the points that will be addressed during the appeal.

Ummm. SAME substance? That's not known, prior to further testing. One stain on the pillow may be saliva, and the other, say, turnip juice.

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