Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[Skeptic]

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[TragicMonkey]

So do these ships become property of Israel now?

It'd be funny if when they search them they find tons of explosives and weapons hidden in there.

 

[Stout]

Haiti has a blockade on them? didn't know that

No of course not, meaning there' not political points to be scored. Just mundane old fundraising, purchasing and delivery, boring, just like every other charitable organisation does.

 

[Thunder]

Anyway - would you attack someone (a soldier) armed with a firearm with a lead pipe?

should these people not have defended themselves against Israel?

should they just let Israel illegally board their ship to enforce their illegal embargo?

 

[Pardalis]

I am sure the families of those killed during Israel's specialist non-lethal take-over will feel a burden lift from their hearts -- or perhaps a veil lifted from their eyes (1)? -- when they learn that their family weren't killed by killing machine commandoes, but by specialists in non-lethal take-over.

Since earlier you noted that this fleet of aid ships knew in advance they were going into a dangerous situation, wouldn't the families of said aid workers have seen it coming?

I mean, they had already their protest signs packed and ready.

 

[TragicMonkey]

should these people not have defended themselves against Israel?

should they just let Israel illegally board their ship to enforce their illegal embargo?

You can't attack someone then claim self defense when they respond. Running a blockade is an act of aggression--an act of war if the actor was another nation.

 

[Stout]

It'd be funny if when they search them they find tons of explosives and weapons hidden in there.

Then there would just be the usual accusations that they were planted, like is happening with the box of slingshots and pipes on the boat. We've already had accusations of sabotage(two boats with steering problems, satellite communications) and agents provocateurs starting the "riot' on the deck.

 

[DC]

You can't attack someone then claim self defense when they respond. Running a blockade is an act of aggression--an act of war if the actor was another nation.

but you can board a vessel on international waters and then claim self defense when they respond.....

 

[Stout]

Since earlier you noted that this fleet of aid ships knew in advance they were going into a dangerous situation, wouldn't the families of said aid workers have seen it coming?

Yes, there were claims that some of the passengers had written their wills before the flotilla departed.

We have one local guy on the flotilla who's job it was 9supposedly0 to protect the journalists and he'd been trained in non-violent resistance. Now they're( local activist community) saying he was going to act as a human shield while Palestinians repaired their wells and fishing fleet.

 

[Pardalis]

Yes, there were claims that some of the passengers had written their wills before the flotilla departed.

We have one local guy on the flotilla who's job it was 9supposedly0 to protect the journalists and he'd been trained in non-violent resistance. Now they're( local activist community) saying he was going to act as a human shield while Palestinians repaired their wells and fishing fleet.

It looks alot like a publicity stunt. Ever Kotatsu agrees.

 

[Thunder]

It looks alot like a publicity stunt. Ever Kotatsu agrees.

No. Israel's cowardly attack upon the ships was the publicity stunt. Perhaps they think Speilberg will make a movie about it.

 

[Skeptic]

Greta Berlin is now issuing a clear statement about the MV Linda (re-christened RachelCorrie)

I wonder if Israel has an airplane large enough to sink that ship by dropping a huge bulldozer on it.

 

[Thunder]

but you can board a vessel on international waters and then claim self defense when they respond.....

If you are Israel, you can do whatever the **** you want.

And if someone doesn't like it, just bring up the Holocaust and Zyklon B. That will shut them up lickity split.

 

[DreadNiK]

Rika: what did you expect? Weak sarcasm and shouting "ISLAMOPHOBE!" is the only "defense" when shown to be totally wrong on the facts.

These other spurious facts don't matter. only the 'fact' that IDF soldiers killed 'unarmed civilians'.

Those who made unfounded and demonstrably false claims about the operational specialisations of the unit in question did so only in passing, of course. A red herring, if you will.

Also, it is no longer about whether the soldiers used force only in self defense - they should have surrendered to an inferior force the moment they engaged...

If the people on the boat were 'resisting' because they deemed the boarding of their ship to be an illegal action, what course should that resistance have taken? Personally, total surrender would have been my plan, but apparently escalating the situation to the point where those evil criminals are forced to open fire in defense of their lives is perfectly valid too.

 

[Thunder]

I wonder if Israel has an airplane large enough to sink that ship by dropping a huge bulldozer on it.

I wonder if Turkey has 6 million lampshades or bars of soap to drop on Tel Aviv.

 

[Pardalis]

Also, it is no longer about whether the soldiers used force only in self defense - they should have surrendered to an inferior force the moment they engaged...

No, the flotilla counted on there being casualties, they had all those placards and signs already painted and ready to go on the streets by monday at noon.

If the IDF hadn't been forced to open fire, it would have ruined the international get-together.

 

[Thunder]

If the IDF hadn't been forced to open fire, it would have ruined the international get-together.

how do civilians armed with sticks and rocks, force a modern army to illegally attack a ship carrying tons of food and supplies to 1.5 million people who are being illegally embargoed?

does Manischewitz cause brain cells to die or something?

 

[DC]

No, the flotilla counted on there being casualties, they had all those placards and signs already painted and ready to go on the streets by monday at noon.

If the IDF hadn't been forced to open fire, it would have ruined the international get-together.

sounds like a nice little conspiracy theory you got there.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Then there would just be the usual accusations that they were planted, like is happening with the box of slingshots and pipes on the boat. We've already had accusations of sabotage(two boats with steering problems, satellite communications) and agents provocateurs starting the "riot' on the deck.

Which leads right back to my original point. If Israel had really wanted to do such things, they'd have done them much, much more effectively. Planted a few explosives then blown a boat up, and made it look like those wacky Hamas were trying to smuggle explosives in but accidentally set them off. Whether the people on board would be portrayed as naive dupes or collaborators, or a mix, would be interesting. Israel's got a good intelligence network, I don't think it would have been difficult to infiltrate such an amateur operation.

I have no objections to people considering Israel to be a nasty bastard of a nation--all nations are, otherwise they don't last very long--but what galls me is the suggestion they are ineffective. Are people really so lacking in imagination that they can't see the real possibilities? If I can think of effective, but evil solutions, then so can any given nation. They choose not to. They hold back. While being accused of being evil they are actually being nice.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

how do civilians armed with sticks and rocks, force a modern army to illegally attack a ship carrying tons of food and supplies to 1.5 million people who are being illegally embargoed?

By attempting to run a naval blockade. You really are behind the times.