Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[zooterkin]

If you mean the "peace" activists that started the whole thing by attacking the Israelis as they boarded, they didn't appear to wait to find out, they just laid into them with pipes and other weapons.

Interesting, you seem to have completely avoided answering the questions I asked.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Can you be more specific when you say "paintball gun"?

Since you obviously haven't bothered reading the links eariler in the thread.

Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.

However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.

ETA image below where the weapons are seen better.

And that link doesn't say anything about international waters, of which there are bugger all in the Gulf anyway so the point is moot. The whole Gulf was an exclusion zone, I want to know about open international waters not subject to any naval blockade.

Not in the Gulf, but boarding teams from US ships were involved.

North Korean Shop boarded in International waters by Spainish and US forces.

There are numerous other stories out there if you look.

 

[DC]

And the vessel was there for????

whos waters was it?

 

[PhantomWolf]

Interesting, you seem to have completely avoided answering the questions I asked.

Honestly they weren't worth answering. The captains of the ships were repeatedly told that they'd be stopped if they tried to run the blockage, they were given the option of having their cargos checked and delivered. They chose to continue knowing it would create a confrontation.

Five of the ships boarded didn't resist and nothing happened on them other than that they were redirected to the port they had previously been told to go to. The Israelis have said that they'll check the cargo and see that it's delivered.

The crew of one ship resisted, attacking the boarders as they come on board, taking their weapons off them, throwing them off the top deck to the lower one, and using the taken handguns, a rifle that was onboard, slingshots loaded with marbles, knives, stun grenades, firebombs, and pipes against them.

Since the activists never gave the Israelis the chance to do anything before attacking them, does it matter if they knew that they were armed with Paintball rifles or not?

Should the Israelis stood there and done nothing when faced with that sort of attack from supposed "peace" activists?

 

[PhantomWolf]

the Israelis started the whole thing by boarding the vessel.

No, the activists started it by attempting to run a blockage knowing they'd be stopped and boarded.

 

[PhantomWolf]

whos waters was it?

It's irrelevant, they had made their intentions to run the blockage well known, in fact they'd stated that they'd "make it to Gaza or become Martyrs trying." It really doesn't take a genius to see that this was an obvious set up by the not so peaceful activists.

They knew they'd be stopped, they knew they'd be bordered, they had weapons, and then they used them, and yet somehow we're all supposed to be surprised and upset that the Israelis defended themselves when confronted with people shooting at them, stabbing them, beating them with pipes, firing marbles at them from sling shots, throwing stun grenades and fire bombs, and throwing people off of the side of the top deck.

 

[Kotatsu]

I'm surprised at how quickly protesters took to the streets around the world, within hours of the raid.

Yes, isn't that oddly suspicious? It's almost as if people around the world knew in advance at approximately what date the ships were to approach the target area, and that the Israeli might try to stop them in some way. I am not usually a paranoid person, but something about this makes me believe that this whole convoy was actually planned beforehand, and not something that just suddenly materialised off the Cypriot shore!

I met a friend at a protest yesterday, who asserted that he had heard about these ships several days ago -- a ludicrous lie, of course, and one which I didn't believe for an instant. He went on to say that he had suspected something would happen to these ships when they came close to Israel, an equally inane statement. I said to him: if you can predict the sudden realignment of various trace elements in the Mediterranean into a convoy of aid ships and the response of the Israeli military to this development in advance with any degree of accuracy, I know a place where you can easily get a million dollars (1)!

I am astonished that none of the local newspapers have had the courage to look into how this convoy could have been kept such a secret from everyone in the world (2), except for a handful of fanatics. They are probably all shivering in fright that authors, Holocaust survivors and pediatricians will suddenly show up in their back yards, attempting to smuggle in candy to their kids on a week day, despite the editors' stern "Candy only on Saturdays!" policy.

As a member of the political left, I am outraged and dismayed about how a small cabal have kept this whole operation a secret. I know several people -- I among them -- who would have been more than willing to support them with money and other things, if only we hadn't been kept in the dark.

There is obviously a need for more transparency in these solidarity projects; the left needs to broadcast their intentions more. Perhaps we could set aside a day every year -- preferably sometime in the spring or early summer, so that we'll stand a better chance of having fair and decent weather -- to just meeting up and discuss these things, perhaps outdoors? That way, we could all be better informed on various initiatives and ideas, and maybe we would, as a result, become better organised, so that we're not caught with our pants in the jam jar like this time.

---
(1) He responded, having taken some offense, that I was obviously pulling his leg as, I quote, "That much money does not exist now, nor has it ever existed in the history of mankind!"
(2) One reputable local newspaper claims this was the best kept secret since Sir Howard Makefroth Smythe-Lombard discovered a second Africa off the western coast of the first, more well-known, one in 1865, though the veracity of this mysterious continent -- which quite tellingly does not appear on Google Maps! -- has not yet been independently established.

 

[zooterkin]

It's irrelevant, they had made their intentions to run the blockage well known, in fact they'd stated that they'd "make it to Gaza or become Martyrs trying." It really doesn't take a genius to see that this was an obvious set up by the not so peaceful activists.

They knew they'd be stopped, they knew they'd be bordered, they had weapons, and then they used them, and yet somehow we're all supposed to be surprised and upset that the Israelis defended themselves when confronted with people shooting at them, stabbing them, beating them with pipes, firing marbles at them from sling shots, throwing stun grenades and fire bombs, and throwing people off of the side of the top deck.

Oh, no, we're not surprised that the Israelis think they have the moral high ground, and that dropping onto a ship in the dead of night is not an aggressive act.

What would you do if someone entered your premises in the dead of night carrying what looked like a weapon? Would you defend yourself?

 

[quixotecoyote]

Oh, no, we're not surprised that the Israelis think they have the moral high ground, and that dropping onto a ship in the dead of night is not an aggressive act.

What would you do if someone entered your premises in the dead of night carrying what looked like a weapon? Would you defend yourself?

Depends, did I just drive my house full of partyguests with homemade weapons into their yard?

 

[Kotatsu]

It's irrelevant, they had made their intentions to run the blockage well known

How could this be, while people like Pardalis and I -- and obviously the majority of the world with us -- were entirely clueless about the whole operation until it suddenly erupted in a manner similar to how a drawer filled with too many socks and pants may suddenly yield to the forces of nature and spread your smalls across the living room while you're entertaining your inlaws-to-be for tea and scones for the first time (1)? How could not everyone have been taken completely by surprise about the fleet's very existence?

More pertinently: what manner of arcane rituals have allowed you to obtain knowledge of this even before it happened? It is, as Pardalis so astutely demonstrated, a logical impossibility, your contravention of which can only be ascribed to flirting with the dark powers, or attempting to pull what is left of our collective legs!

---
(1) An embarrassment, of course, but not as bad as the reverse. My last set of drawers viciously attacked my inlaws-to-be and pulled their socks and underwear off, which resulted in the mother of my beloved refusing to let me walk with her (the beloved, that is), and her father (the beloved's, not that of the mother of the beloved; these things can never be made too clear, I've found) said that he'd see to it that I "would never find work in the canned peas business in Stroud again"! Such are the perils of attempting to scale the societal ladder when your furniture was inherited from your uncle, who was an apprentice witch-doctor, and it is a mistake I'll never do twice!

 

[wuschel]

However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.

(emphasis mine)
They attempted to wrest away their paintball weapons?

 

[Virus]

They were carrying paintball guns as primary weapons and pistols as backup. They were ordered not to open fire with the pistols unless authorized.

Account from one of the commandos:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html

 

[bigjelmapro]

It's standard for Israeli army to use paintball guns in a night-time assault in international waters? How are the people they are attacking supposed to know that?

Don't know if its a standard, but how is this an argument for the carnage that ensued when the first IDF soldier boarded the ship?

Previous examples of boardings, detaining/diverting of ships entering the naval blockade zone were met with a similar non-lethal boarding parties, so there's no reason for such an aggressive reaction by these 'peace activists'.

The only reason I see for such a reaction by those on board is that these previous boarding parties did not produce the wanted propaganda material, hence the need for these activists to take more extreme actions to provoke a response. So far its worked to their advantage.

 

[bigjelmapro]

How could this be, while people like Pardalis and I -- and obviously the majority of the world with us -- were entirely clueless about the whole operation until it suddenly erupted...
---

What's this long-winded response add up to? That somehow those who were actually following this situation ensue from the beginning, as it was declared over a week ago by the IHH as to their intentions to run the blockade, are at fault and have some unfavorable advantage to those who don't follow regional news?

I don't really get what you're getting at here....

 

[Tricky]

Unremarkably, this thread has included a number of personal attacks, bickering and off-topic posts. Unsurprisingly, I'm asking you all to stop them.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[PhantomWolf]

Oh, no, we're not surprised that the Israelis think they have the moral high ground, and that dropping onto a ship in the dead of night is not an aggressive act.

What would you do if someone entered your premises in the dead of night carrying what looked like a weapon? Would you defend yourself?

If I'd already been told that they were coming, knew they were the equivilent of the local law enforcement officers, and seen them do the same to my five neighbours, and was standing there waiting for them, then no, not unless I want to get shot.... oh, funny that...

 

[a_unique_person]

Depends, did I just drive my house full of partyguests with homemade weapons into their yard?

Who's yard?

 

[PhantomWolf]

(emphasis mine)
They attempted to wrest away their paintball weapons?

As Virus stated, they had handguns as backups, but were under orders not to use them. They had to ask permission multiple times before being giving authority to do so, and even then, only after several had lost them to the activists after being knocked down and stripped of them.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I'd note here that US boarding parties in the Gulf and off Somalia are authorised to use deadly force if attacked while boarding, and have done so when required, even killing people who have resisted boarding. Why are Israeli forces to be denyed the same right to self defence when they conduct boarding operations during a blockade against a state they are at war with?

 

[JihadJane]

How. pray tell, do you get a threat against the people of Palestine out of that?

You pretend (or delude yourself) that “Gazans” are the sole cause of the assaults against them and other Palestinians and then make them responsible for the war being waged against them.

You wouldn't think from some of the comments here that Hamas exist as a response to a forty year long occupation

Or that they were nurtured and supported by Isreal as a way of undermining the PLO.

I'm surprised at how quickly protesters took to the streets around the world, within hours of the raid.

Why are you surprised? Do you think the world has become totally immune to feeling outraged by state terrorism and piracy and an unjustifiable act of war against Turkey?

It's irrelevant, they had made their intentions to run the blockage well known, in fact they'd stated that they'd "make it to Gaza or become Martyrs trying." It really doesn't take a genius to see that this was an obvious set up by the not so peaceful activists.

They knew they'd be stopped, they knew they'd be bordered, they had weapons, and then they used them, and yet somehow we're all supposed to be surprised and upset that the Israelis defended themselves when confronted with people shooting at them, stabbing them, beating them with pipes, firing marbles at them from sling shots, throwing stun grenades and fire bombs, and throwing people off of the side of the top deck.

No, it's not irrelevant that it was in international waters.

It is strange how confident you are about what happened when all we have are IDF supplied videos, some chaotic satellite broadcasts and the witnesses locked up, incommunicado, in prison.

Israel routinely blames its disproportionate hyperviolence on its victims. No change there.