Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[bigjelmapro]

If an attack is broadcast live over the internet by your enemies, that does not really sound like you are in very good control of the battlespace.

What do you think happens when you have 800 'activists' on a boat followed around with camera crew? Provocation and effective propaganda. Still, how is this relevant to the argument?

My other 'angle' would be that I expect Israel to be more cool and professional.

Commandos getting overpowered, having their weapons taken, thrown overboard sounds like Israel did not really understand their enemy, underestimated them, made critical mistakes, are embarrassed before the world, and further inflamed a region that really does not need any more.

First statement doesn't fall in line with the 2nd one. Actually, quite contradictory. It was a miscalculation by the IDF to base their line of action based on the dealings of previous flotillas filled with actual activists rather than IHH supported radicals.

So this angle is what exactly? Is it an angle at all?

Despite that... Israel never wrong. Ever. Anything at all. Period.

Oh, whinge whinge. First the victim card, now the 'israel can do no wrong' stunt. Predictable as always. And a loss in debate on your part, as always.

Touch a nerve there did I? By tomorrow morning I'll be surprised if there are not political cartoons morphing the Israel flag into a pirate flag. But so what? Clearly Israel as a national entity does not care what anyone thinks.

Nah, I just find you guys comical in your half-baked attempts at debate. I'm sure the liberal media will try their hand again at legal terms and completely screw it up as usual. I've yet to see any allegations of piracy stick especially if this is the right of a country in a state of armed conflict to impose a naval blockade.

No counter to that. If you wish to try that again, by all means.

I completely understand the soldier's right to defend themselves. I am actually sympathetic. They brought paintball guns to a knife fight.

Yeah, those darn peace activists these days eh?

Sorry what? They hate you. THEY HATE YOU. Yes even extending to the peace activists. Sheesh doesn't Israel get it? and this will make more hate.

Violence escalates? Should be an old lesson by now for both Israel and Palestinians.

Oh no's, they hate us. More reason to fold, cower and give in eh? I'm sure giving in, allowing Hamas to further stockpile weapons, win more propaganda wars is the solution. Still pushing the notion that these are 'peace activists'?

Israel is better than this.
Her people are capable of greater deeds.
Her military is more competent.

IDF has learned once again that

Would love to see another country deal better with this.

 

[bigjelmapro]

what term do you want us to use, when we want to describe the punishment of all palestinians for the acts of a few? like in the case of the blockade for example.

we could aslo call it terror? thats better?

Retorsion. Been through this, even linked an article differentiating between the two.

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for Rule 12. [edit]

 

[DC]

Retorsion. Been through this, even linked an article differentiating between the two. But as usual, DC, laziness gets the better of you. I only wish you actually make an attempt to properly debate and make yourself more relevant to the threads you partake it. You're as useless as pubic hair at the moment....

yeah sorry for not reading every post of yours....

 

[zooterkin]

33% of Germany voted for the Nazi party in 1933. Should 100% of Germany been punished for this vote?

I think you'll find they were, pretty much.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for Rule 12.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Israelis claimed to only have pistols. And yet, there is a photo of one holding a rifle or shotgun. what else did they lie about?

Try again, the soldier is holding a paintball gun.

 

[PhantomWolf]

They weren't in the Exclusion Zone, if such a law exists then I can't see how it can apply to vessels outside of the blockade area, in international waters, flying a national flag. Seems to me that Israel thinks itself above the law.

And it's not like the US and allies never did the exact same thing when Iraq was under saction.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Imagine if another power had done this to an Israeli vessel. There'd be a war going by now

Really?

If an private Israeli political activist group in a merchant ship would try to break a naval blockade in a foreign war zone? And was warned to turn back? And was offered to have the aid goods delivered by the army? And resisted when boarded by the navy?

Sure, they'd send in the nuclear subs.

 

[Eddie Dane]

is Hamas solely a terrorist organisation? Or does it also maintain extensive social services network that the PA Authority failed to keep up?

Hamas is a grassroots organisation that has been affective at many things besides terrorism. Also Fatah is seen (probably correctly) as corrupt.

Even apart from the occupation problem, I'm hardly surprised that they won the election.

 

[bit_pattern]

And it's not like the US and allies never did the exact same thing when Iraq was under saction.

Source?

And, not a paintball gun

http://img.waffleimages.com/d9cfae7...e05bfdd2222/A-screengrab-from-the-Tur-006.jpg

More like a M1014 shottie

 

[bit_pattern]

oops... my bad

 

[bigjelmapro]

And, not a paintball gun

@ 1:01 clearly show a paintball gun. Pretty standard.

More like a M1014 shottie

Actually more like the Remington 870. Don't think that the IDF has any Italian shotguns in stock.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Source?

http://www.history.navy.mil/wars/dstorm/ds3.htm

Read "THE MARITIME INTERCEPTION CAMPAIGN"

Over an eight-month period, over 165 ships from 14 allied nations challenged more than 9,000 merchant vessels, boarded more than 1,100 to inspect manifests and cargo holds and diverted over 60 for violation of sanction guidelines. U.S. boarding teams conducted 582 of those boardings. Another 25 were combined U.S.-allied boardings.

 

[PhantomWolf]

@ 1:01 clearly show a paintball gun. Pretty standard.

And anyone actually following the thread would have seen a better copy of that exact image identifying the weapon carried as a paintball gun.

 

[zooterkin]

@ 1:01 clearly show a paintball gun. Pretty standard.

It's standard for Israeli army to use paintball guns in a night-time assault in international waters? How are the people they are attacking supposed to know that?

 

[bit_pattern]

Can you be more specific when you say "paintball gun"? And that link doesn't say anything about international waters, of which there are bugger all in the Gulf anyway so the point is moot. The whole Gulf was an exclusion zone, I want to know about open international waters not subject to any naval blockade.

 

[PhantomWolf]

It's standard for Israeli army to use paintball guns in a night-time assault in international waters? How are the people they are attacking supposed to know that?

If you mean the "peace" activists that started the whole thing by attacking the Israelis as they boarded, they didn't appear to wait to find out, they just laid into them with pipes and other weapons.

 

[DC]

the Israelis started the whole thing by boarding the vessel.

 

[lionking]

the Israelis started the whole thing by boarding the vessel.

And the vessel was there for????

 

[Eddie Dane]

the Israelis started the whole thing by boarding the vessel.

They were right to board the ship, in the very least to check the cargo.
It was to be expected that they would board, much more likely than a free passage.

Considering the condemnation they got, they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble and just torpedoed the vessel.

Edit: yes that was sarcasm.