• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bruce Fisher said:
Please explain what motion you are trying.
Click to expand...

I've tried multiple variations where I'm not squarely facing the door. And basically any position that falls outside my 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock position feels unnatural. Walking through out the door, making the turn to right and turning my upper body further allows me get to where the door and lock are (roughly) at my 2 o'clock position. However, that only gets the door closed, not locked yet. Inserting a key and turning that key feels decidedly unnatural in that position. And requires constant reminding not to take another step in order to face the door. I don't see any logical reason why Rudy wouldn't have just completed his turn by stepping but instead resorts this twisting around.
 
Amazer said:
I've tried multiple variations where I'm not squarely facing the door. And basically any position that falls outside my 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock position feels unnatural. Walking through out the door, making the turn to right and turning my upper body further allows me get to where the door and lock are (roughly) at my 2 o'clock position. However, that only gets the door closed, not locked yet. Inserting a key and turning that key feels decidedly unnatural in that position. And requires constant reminding not to take another step in order to face the door. I don't see any logical reason why Rudy wouldn't have just completed his turn by stepping but instead resorts this twisting around.
Click to expand...

He might have turned the lock from the inside, removed the key and then pulled the door closed behind him.
 
Amazer,
I will make a short video showing how Rudy could have easily locked the door. Maybe I am not explaining it correctly. I do not know what direction you are putting your left foot down on the floor. There is no twisting or odd body movements needed. I can see the angle of Rudy's shoe from the high resolution photograph of the shoe print. I will recreate that in my video. My 12 year old son will take the video with a cheap camera so don't expect anything fancy.
 
Last edited:
Bruce Fisher said:
Amazer,
I will make a short video showing how Rudy could have easily locked the door. Maybe I am not explaining it correctly. I do not know what direction you are putting your left foot down on the floor. There is no twisting or odd body movements needed. I can see the angle of Rudy's shoe from the high resolution photograph of the shoe print. I will recreate that in my video. My 12 year old son will take the video with a cheap camera so don't expect anything fancy.
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to seeing that video Bruce.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Ahh, read the rest of the thread/post, Bruce.

Whether I was right or wrong about Halloween (I was, I suppose...), your argument is still invalid for the reason I've pointed out.

Thanks, and have a wonderful JREF day.
Click to expand...

I did not see anything you wrote that proved me wrong. You need to do some research.
 
Amazer said:
I'm looking forward to seeing that video Bruce.
Click to expand...



Put me down too on that one ....... You know though, even if the door can be locked from the inside first, (which I doubt), he definitely would have locked the more important door (the outside one). Of course Amanda has a key to that one, but why did she leave it open and make such a fuss about it being open.

I for one am not all that convinced she was in the room during the murder, but she was involved enough to try to cover up whatever involvement she did have.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
I did not see anything you wrote that proved me wrong. You need to do some research.
Click to expand...

You claimed that as Curatolo mentioned masks/costumes, his testimony was referring to Oct 31, not the night of the murder. As I (and others) have clearly shown, the nights of Oct 31 - Nov 2 are very likely to have costumed revelers. Therefore, the mask/costume statement is not contradictory to his testimony taking place on Nov 1, the night of the murder.

Your argument against Curatolo's testimony is, therefore, wrong.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
You claimed that as Curatolo mentioned masks/costumes, his testimony was referring to Oct 31, not the night of the murder. As I (and others) have clearly shown, the nights of Oct 31 - Nov 2 are very likely to have costumed revelers. Therefore, the mask/costume statement is not contradictory to his testimony taking place on Nov 1, the night of the murder.

Your argument against Curatolo's testimony is, therefore, wrong.
Click to expand...

Where did you cite that there are people with witch costumes all over the place in Perugia on All Saints day. All Souls Day and Halloween, yes we know this. Where did you get it for All Saints Day?

As far as I can tell, it is not customary to wear witch costumes on All Saints Day in Perugia. Please cite where you are getting this.
 
Last edited:
Charlie Wilkes said:
Not necessarily. He had blood on one part of his left sole. I think you are tasking the shoe prints with a more inference than they can support.
Click to expand...

So you're saying he held his left foot in the air while he paused at the door to lock it before walking out? What, he didn't want to leave a bloody shoeprint at the door?

I am tasking you with proving your claim that Rudy locked the door before leaving the room. Given that Rudy, by this time, had blood on his shoes, there must shoeprints indicating that Rudy had paused at the door to lock it, unless you want to claim that Rudy was hopping on one foot (again) while he locked the door.

This is Tracking 101. Follow the trail of footprints - if there is no pause in the shoeprints at the door, then one cannot assert that Rudy paused to lock the door before exiting.

This is, strangely enough, the same reason it's not accepted that Rudy stopped to lock the door from the outside of the room - the shoeprints not only don't support this assertion, they indicate that there was no pause during the flight from Meredith's room.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
You claimed that as Curatolo mentioned masks/costumes, his testimony was referring to Oct 31, not the night of the murder. As I (and others) have clearly shown, the nights of Oct 31 - Nov 2 are very likely to have costumed revelers. Therefore, the mask/costume statement is not contradictory to his testimony taking place on Nov 1, the night of the murder.

Your argument against Curatolo's testimony is, therefore, wrong.
Click to expand...


There is so much information about this available online it is a wonder you think you have the basis to argue about it.

All Saints Day. November 1st, is a national holiday in Italy and a Holy Day of Obligation in the Catholic Church. Everything is closed in Italy and everybody who is Catholic has to go to church. All Souls Day continues the religious feast, but it is not an official national holiday or a Holy Day of Obligation.

Traditionally, All Saints Day is a holiday focusing on gifts for children, celebrations of food, and on both days, visits to cemeteries to honor dead ancestors. I don't find any mention of a tradition of costume-wearing for All Saints Day or all All Souls Day.

Halloween is catching on in Italy but is not traditional. The students in Perugia probably celebrate it in part because there are so many foreign students there. Everyone in the cottage went to Halloween parties and dressed in costumes on Halloween night, hence the pictures of Meredith in her vampire costume.

As in the United States, having a holiday the next day means parties the night before. All Saints Day is a holiday, so everyone parties on Halloween. All Souls Day is a feast day, but not everything is traditionally closed, although in 2007, it was more a holiday than usual because it made a long weekend. The evening of All Saints Day (when the murder was committed) was a party night for some -- Meredith went to her friends', Amanda went to Raffaele's, Rudy went to a disco -- but it was not a night for costume parties.

Curatolo was referring to Halloween.

If you want to argue that some people may have worn costumes on All Saints Day, you will only be able to get as far as claiming they were dressed up as saints -- not as witches or with masks, etc.
 
Last edited:
Sherlock Holmes said:
Put me down too on that one ....... You know though, even if the door can be locked from the inside first, (which I doubt), he definitely would have locked the more important door (the outside one). Of course Amanda has a key to that one, but why did she leave it open and make such a fuss about it being open.
...
Click to expand...

There is only testimony from Knox that the font door was open when she arrived home, and it was one of the things that she says that made her suspicious, so she went and got Sollecito.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
So you're saying he held his left foot in the air while he paused at the door to lock it before walking out? What, he didn't want to leave a bloody shoeprint at the door?

I am tasking you with proving your claim that Rudy locked the door before leaving the room. Given that Rudy, by this time, had blood on his shoes, there must shoeprints indicating that Rudy had paused at the door to lock it, unless you want to claim that Rudy was hopping on one foot (again) while he locked the door.

This is Tracking 101. Follow the trail of footprints - if there is no pause in the shoeprints at the door, then one cannot assert that Rudy paused to lock the door before exiting.

This is, strangely enough, the same reason it's not accepted that Rudy stopped to lock the door from the outside of the room - the shoeprints not only don't support this assertion, they indicate that there was no pause during the flight from Meredith's room.
Click to expand...


Is that photgraph of the shoeprints available somewhere? I have been given to understand that the shoeprint that is in the hallway at the hinge end of the door is of Rudy's left foot. Is that correct? I asked Fiona last night to surmise where the right shoeprint was, but she hasn' gotten back to me on that.

If Rudy's left shoeprint is on the hallway floor at the hinge end of the door, where is his right shoeprint?
 
Mary_H said:
Is that photgraph of the shoeprints available somewhere? I have been given to understand that the shoeprint that is in the hallway at the hinge end of the door is of Rudy's left foot. Is that correct? I asked Fiona last night to surmise where the right shoeprint was, but she hasn' gotten back to me on that.

If Rudy's left shoeprint is on the hallway floor at the hinge end of the door, where is his right shoeprint?
Click to expand...

Behind him as he contorts to lock the door without shifting his left foot to face it?

NVM
 
Last edited:
BobTheDonkey said:
So you're saying he held his left foot in the air while he paused at the door to lock it before walking out? What, he didn't want to leave a bloody shoeprint at the door?

I am tasking you with proving your claim that Rudy locked the door before leaving the room. Given that Rudy, by this time, had blood on his shoes, there must shoeprints indicating that Rudy had paused at the door to lock it, unless you want to claim that Rudy was hopping on one foot (again) while he locked the door.

This is Tracking 101. Follow the trail of footprints - if there is no pause in the shoeprints at the door, then one cannot assert that Rudy paused to lock the door before exiting.

This is, strangely enough, the same reason it's not accepted that Rudy stopped to lock the door from the outside of the room - the shoeprints not only don't support this assertion, they indicate that there was no pause during the flight from Meredith's room.
Click to expand...

I can't prove Rudy locked the door while inside the room, which is why I submitted it as a possibility rather than a fact. The shoe prints don't provide enough information to resolve this issue one way or the other.
 
Mary_H said:
There is so much information about this available online it is a wonder you think you have the basis to argue about it.

All Saints Day. November 1st, is a national holiday in Italy and a Holy Day of Obligation in the Catholic Church. Everything is closed in Italy and everybody who is Catholic has to go to church. All Souls Day continues the religious feast, but it is not an official national holiday or a Holy Day of Obligation.

Traditionally, All Saints Day is a holiday focusing on gifts for children, celebrations of food, and on both days, visits to cemeteries to honor dead ancestors. I don't find any mention of a tradition of costume-wearing for All Saints Day or all All Souls Day.

Halloween is catching on in Italy but is not traditional. The students in Perugia probably celebrate it in part because there are so many foreign students there. Everyone in the cottage went to Halloween parties and dressed in costumes on Halloween night, hence the pictures of Meredith in her vampire costume.

As in the United States, having a holiday the next day means parties the night before. All Saints Day is a holiday, so everyone parties on Halloween. All Souls Day is a feast day, but not everything is traditionally closed, although in 2007, it was more a holiday than usual because it made a long weekend. The evening of All Saints Day (when the murder was committed) was a party night for some -- Meredith went to her friends', Amanda went to Raffaele's, Rudy went to a disco -- but it was not a night for costume parties.

Curatolo was referring to Halloween.

If you want to argue that some people may have worn costumes on All Saints Day, you will only be able to get as far as claiming they were dressed up as saints -- not as witches or with masks, etc.
Click to expand...

"La Fiera dei Morti" is a holiday celebrated 1st November to 5th November in Perugia, with fairs and bands, and it seems a lot more to do with an old pagan tradition than the christian "All Saints Day".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom