Care to Comment

[Profanz]

How do you know that there was no thermite residue? NIST said they didn't look for it and if you don't look for something you won't find it.

You seem to be presuming that just anyone can look at a piece of steel that was in a fire and discern that thermite had been used. I think you are wrong.

Tony. What they believe here makes no sense at all. They know this. And it is sad. What I don't like is how they try to get arrogant behind their fear. That needs to be smacked down. If at some point they want to get serious, then fine. But I don't think that is going to happen here anytime soon. All I can do then is make fun of them.

You trying to converse with them rationally is a waste of time. They're not interested. You are above them. They are throwing spit balls for lack of anything else. It's the only thing they have found in their lives to try and be good at.

Just my opinion.

 

[T.A.M.]

How do you know that there was no thermite residue? NIST said they didn't look for it and if you don't look for something you won't find it.

You seem to be presuming that just anyone can look at a piece of steel that was in a fire and discern that thermite had been used. I think you are wrong.

Tony, your own high priest of Thermite, S. Jones, has admitted that if thermite was present, it was only in the form of small amounts used in fuses for more conventional explosives. He stated this in emails to Frank Greening, when Greening cornered him on the REALITY of how such thermite could be applied and work, etc...

So your own inventor of the Thermite theory has backed away from its use as a cutter of any kind, yet you still cling to it. Why?

TAM

 

[Profanz]

Tony, your own high priest of Thermite, S. Jones, has admitted that if thermite was present, it was only in the form of small amounts used in fuses for more conventional explosives. He stated this in emails to Frank Greening, when Greening cornered him on the REALITY of how such thermite could be applied and work, etc...

So your own inventor of the Thermite theory has backed away from its use as a cutter of any kind, yet you still cling to it. Why?

TAM

Oh brother. You sound as if you believe all debunkes have a consistent theory as to what happened on 9/11. Guess what? You don't. Maybe Tony differs in what Jones believes. Maybe he doesn't. What does it matter when debunkers can't come up with a consistent consensus narrative?

We're all guessing. That's the problem. That and some delusional types who have tricked themselves into thinking they actually know for a fact what happened that day.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Tony. What they believe here makes no sense at all. They know this. And it is sad. What I don't like is how they try to get arrogant behind their fear. That needs to be smacked down. If at some point they want to get serious, then fine. But I don't think that is going to happen here anytime soon. All I can do then is make fun of them.

Profanz, I do appreciate reading the stoic comments here from posters like yourself.

It is sad that many here often lower themselves to the use of ad hominem and ridicule, when their arguments fail, and seem to be wrapped in the emotion of the debate rather than dealing in objective reality.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Tony, your own high priest of Thermite, S. Jones, has admitted that if thermite was present, it was only in the form of small amounts used in fuses for more conventional explosives. He stated this in emails to Frank Greening, when Greening cornered him on the REALITY of how such thermite could be applied and work, etc...

So your own inventor of the Thermite theory has backed away from its use as a cutter of any kind, yet you still cling to it. Why?

TAM

All I have ever maintained is that the lack of deceleration in the falls of the upper sections of the buildings shows that something was removing most of the strength of the columns before the impacts occurred between stories.

The discussion on what may have been used to do that is somewhat speculative and I have always stated that and do not pretend to know what exactly was used.

Having said that, we do know that the authors of the Active Thermitic Materials found in the WTC Dust paper say they have found unignited nano-thermite in the dust from the WTC collapses. All one can really say there is to ask what it was doing in those buildings as it certainly had no place there. If you watched my debate with Ryan Mackey that was my response to his question of how I thought it was used.

Another thing which came up in that debate was the noise level in the falls of the towers and Ron Wieck's assertion that there was no noise on the level of what usually accompanies demolition explosive use. The discussion here has involved a feature of nano-energetics called tailorability which has a place in the conversation as it can be used to limit noise.

By the way, Dr. Greening has become remarkably quiet since he was shown that the Verinage demolitions all exhibit a definitive and observable deceleration when the stories impact and cause a natural collapse after an instigated one or two story fall.

 

[WildCat]

Not at all. It is completely possible that heating from thermite may have been the reason NIST got so little of the steel (just 236 pieces out of about 50,000 from the towers), as the thermite temperatures would have been significantly higher than any fire could generate in the steel. And how would that be explained?

So now you're claiming that the steel temp got so high it all melted, and only 236 pieces survived?

This really doesn't seem completely insane to you?

 

[Profanz]

So now you're claiming that the steel temp got so high it all melted, and only 236 pieces survived?

This really doesn't seem completely insane to you?

Oh brother. Really?

 

[Tony Szamboti]

So now you're claiming that the steel temp got so high it all melted, and only 236 pieces survived?

This really doesn't seem completely insane to you?

What is insane is your interpretation above.

I said it is completely possible that the reason only 236 pieces of steel were saved, out of 10's of thousands of pieces from the towers and WTC 7, was to eliminate evidence of temperatures which were much too high for fire to have caused. This does not mean all of that steel melted, although it would imply some parts of these pieces would show signs of melting.

 

[DGM]

What is insane is your interpretation above.

I said it is completely possible that the reason only 236 pieces of steel were saved, out of 10's of thousands of pieces from the towers and WTC 7, was to eliminate evidence of temperatures which were much too high for fire to have caused. This does not mean all of that steel melted, although it would imply some parts of these pieces would show signs of melting.

But it does add a whole lot of people to the "in on it" category.

I'd love to see a list of all the people the "truthers" have accused of being "in on it".

 

[Tony Szamboti]

But it does add a whole lot of people to the "in on it" category.

I'd love to see a list of all the people the "truthers" have accused of being "in on it".

What you say here is not an objective argument and is actually a fallacy.

It is completely plausible that the FEMA appointees sent to Lower Manhattan on Sept. 10, 2001 by the Bush administration were in on it, along with a few members of Rudy Giuliani's staff, and were able to eliminate the evidence, as they controlled the investigation.

 

[GlennB]

What is insane is your interpretation above.

I said it is completely possible that the reason only 236 pieces of steel were saved, out of 10's of thousands of pieces from the towers and WTC 7, was to eliminate evidence of temperatures which were much too high for fire to have caused. This does not mean all of that steel melted, although it would imply some parts of these pieces would show signs of melting.

No you didn't. That might be what you intended to say but my initial interpretation of what you actually wrote was the same as WildCat's.

Even then, this new and clearer explanation makes not a lick o' sense unless a stunningly high %age of the steel showed signs of thermite damage. If not, then why not just feed NIST or FEMA a selection of the mostly non-thermited steel to keep them happy.

Where your whole suggestion enters fruit-loop country (truth be told, it's already there, but anyhoo...) is to suppose that a team of conspiratorial recovery workers were somehow able to identify the give-away-thermite-signs steel as it was plucked from the debris, control what steel went where, and who was given access to what. And there are the truck drivers taking a look at the 'odd' steel on their low-loaders, being told to drive to a different place from usual and saying "huh?"

 

[Thunder]

What you say here is not an objective argument and is actually a fallacy.

It is completely plausible that the FEMA appointees sent to Lower Manhattan on Sept. 10, 2001 by the Bush administration were in on it, along with a few members of Rudy Giuliani's staff, and were able to eliminate the evidence, as they controlled the investigation.

prove it.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

No you didn't. That might be what you intended to say but my initial interpretation of what you actually wrote was the same as WildCat's.

Even then, this new and clearer explanation makes not a lick o' sense unless a stunningly high %age of the steel showed signs of thermite damage. If not, then why not just feed NIST or FEMA a selection of the mostly non-thermited steel to keep them happy.

Where your whole suggestion enters fruit-loop country (truth be told, it's already there, but anyhoo...) is to suppose that a team of conspiratorial recovery workers were somehow able to identify the give-away-thermite-signs steel as it was plucked from the debris, control what steel went where, and who was given access to what. And there are the truck drivers taking a look at the 'odd' steel on their low-loaders, being told to drive to a different place from usual and saying "huh?"

The only thing that needed to be done would be to just have a knowledgeable person pick out a few pieces which weren't affected and save them to show some steel was saved. That would be the 236 pieces. The rest would simply be ordered destroyed and that is essentially what was done.

 

[Thunder]

The only thing that needed to be done would be to just have a knowledgeable person pick out a few pieces which weren't affected and save them to show some steel was saved. That would be the 236 pieces. The rest would simply be ordered destroyed and that is essentially what was done.

prove it.

 

[tsig]

The only thing that needed to be done would be to just have a knowledgeable person pick out a few pieces which weren't affected and save them to show some steel was saved. That would be the 236 pieces. The rest would simply be ordered destroyed and that is essentially what was done.

Tony, the pile was a seven story (above ground) tangled hot, steaming mass of steel, concrete and all types of office materiel, how could anyone physically pick out 236 pieces?

You don't think the construction workers would notice?

 

[kookbreaker]

Tony, the pile was a seven story (above ground) tangled hot, steaming mass of steel, concrete and all types of office materiel, how could anyone physically pick out 236 pieces?

You don't think the construction workers would notice?

"I'm borrowing these!"

/walks off with an I-beam on each shoulder.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Tony, the pile was a seven story (above ground) tangled hot, steaming mass of steel, concrete and all types of office materiel, how could anyone physically pick out 236 pieces?

You don't think the construction workers would notice?

Nobody was picking through the mess in Lower Manhattan to find samples of steel to be saved. The pile was gone through for search and rescue and the steel was rightly removed as quickly as possible to accomplish that task and sent to steel yards.

The few pieces to be saved were picked out and marked in the steel yards, after the steel was removed from the WTC site, by people like John Gross from NIST.

The rest was then sold and shipped to foreign steel companies who smelted it down.

 

[WildCat]

What is insane is your interpretation above.

I said it is completely possible that the reason only 236 pieces of steel were saved, out of 10's of thousands of pieces from the towers and WTC 7, was to eliminate evidence of temperatures which were much too high for fire to have caused. This does not mean all of that steel melted, although it would imply some parts of these pieces would show signs of melting.

Ah, so now the tens of thousands of people who worked on the pile are in on it too.

This is the problem with the 9/11 conspiracy theories, pretty much everyone is in on it except for truthers. Even I'm a paid government shill, like everyone else here, right Tony?

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Ah, so now the tens of thousands of people who worked on the pile are in on it too.

This is the problem with the 9/11 conspiracy theories, pretty much everyone is in on it except for truthers. Even I'm a paid government shill, like everyone else here, right Tony?

You certainly seem to excel in misinterpretation towards what could be considered a biased point of view. Could it be intentional? I wouldn't doubt it.

 

[DGM]

What you say here is not an objective argument and is actually a fallacy.

It is completely plausible that the FEMA appointees sent to Lower Manhattan on Sept. 10, 2001 by the Bush administration were in on it, along with a few members of Rudy Giuliani's staff, and were able to eliminate the evidence, as they controlled the investigation.

The problem with this is the site was not controlled all that well. I know people that work there and they could walk around and look all they wanted. Does this sound like a way to run a secure operation to you? Just looking at all the pictures that came out of there would have been a logistics nightmare to guarantee nothing in those picture (including background) could be incriminating.