Men shouldn't get plastic surgery.

steve s

Philosopher
steve s
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
5,865
I'm watching Jay Leno's show right now and he's got Garry Shandling on. Shandling looks like he's wearing a mask. Women look bad enough when they have work done, but men look ridiculous. Bruce Jenner, Kenny Rogers, Mickey Rourke. Men should just accept the aging process.

Steve S
 
Agreed. Unless it is reconstructive. Craggy men get the chicks!
 
To be honest, I don't think anyone should get plastic surgery, with the exception of people disfigured in accidents or with a birth defect. Nine times out ten the person looks worse than before the surgery.
 
And psychologically speaking, it is a very bad route to go.

(Again, for cosmetic reasons, not accident or what not)
 
I'm a 50 something my kids think behaves as a 20 year old. They will never, ever accuse me of looking anything other than a 50 something. I agree with the OP.
 
There are some times when plastic surgery is necessary, but otherwise I agree with Giraffe107. No-one should get plastic surgery based solely on trying to approve their appearance.
 
Had Patrick Dempsey never had a nose job would he still be as appealing to women? I agree cosmetic surgery is a mistake in almost all cases, and that it looks especially bad on men. It can lead to loss of facial expression too which should be one of the biggest assets in any actor's list of talents.
 
arthwollipot said:
There are some times when plastic surgery is necessary, but otherwise I agree with Giraffe107. No-one should get plastic surgery based solely on trying to approve their appearance.
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What are the times when plastic surgery is 'necessary'?
People disfigured in accidents or by birth defects do not 'need' plastic sugery, because it is only to improve appearance.
 
figarot said:
Had Patrick Dempsey never had a nose job would he still be as appealing to women? I agree cosmetic surgery is a mistake in almost all cases, and that it looks especially bad on men. It can lead to loss of facial expression too which should be one of the biggest assets in any actor's list of talents.
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How have you reached that conclusion?

For example, don't women who work in the sex industry earn more money if their breasts are (compared to the average non-enhanced woman) larger?

Also, might your opinion be biased because it is based on people whose surgical alterations are obvious, rather than those whose surgery you don't notice?

Finally, do you feel the same about cosmetic dental work as you do about plastic surgery? If not, why not?
 
Why, may I ask?

It's a personal choice that I don't agree with, but can certainly respect other people making. I'm not too erudite on the hospital system, but if it infringes on other people getting more serious, non-elective surgery, than I can understand it. Other than that I really don't see what everyone's problem here is with it.

Alex.
 
kerikiwi said:
What are the times when plastic surgery is 'necessary'?
People disfigured in accidents or by birth defects do not 'need' plastic sugery, because it is only to improve appearance.
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Should such people be forced to live disfigured?

I have actually been given compelling arguments for breast reduction and breast enlargement surgery, but most such procedures are cosmetic at best.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
How have you reached that conclusion?

For example, don't women who work in the sex industry earn more money if their breasts are (compared to the average non-enhanced woman) larger?

Also, might your opinion be biased because it is based on people whose surgical alterations are obvious, rather than those whose surgery you don't notice?

Finally, do you feel the same about cosmetic dental work as you do about plastic surgery? If not, why not?
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I'm certain sex workers get more money the bigger their assets, but that would not influence my opinion on cosmetic surgery.

My opinion may well be biased. I've known people who've had work done and it always struck me as superflous, even when it was minor. I just prefer to show my years and be at peace with how I look than go in for something to be "fixed", I don't expect others to adhere to the same mindset however.

I do feel the same about cosmetic dental work, but I can live with people who aren't physically perfect. My own teeth could use work but they'll never see it. My nose has a bump but I'm okay with that too.
 
kerikiwi said:
What's the difference between 'bad enough' and ridiculous?
And how do you know when anyone has 'had work done'?
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Well, maybe it's hard to be sure of the plastic surgery in some cases, but at least botox is a pretty dead giveaway because of the creepy death-mask kind of look of those paralyzed muscles. I suppose again if you insist on 'know', it's possible that someone was born with the nerves missing in some strategic places, but chances are good they weren't.
 
Legend said:
Why, may I ask?

It's a personal choice that I don't agree with, but can certainly respect other people making. I'm not too erudite on the hospital system, but if it infringes on other people getting more serious, non-elective surgery, than I can understand it. Other than that I really don't see what everyone's problem here is with it.

Alex.
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Well, it's partially what the OP said - that people look worse after bad cosmetic surgery than they did before (Michael Jackson's nose as an example), but it's also the risk of complications arising from surgery. Although surgery in general is usually very safe and straightforward, someone's still cutting into your body with a scalpel. I wouldn't think this would be something that you'd want to do if it wasn't absolutely necessary.
 
It's up the individual. Their body, their choice. Why is it acceptable to pierce or tattoo your body for decorate purposes, but somehow wrong to use medical science to alter its appearance? Yeah, there are people who make bad choices, who go too far, and have bad results. That's true of tattooing and piercing as well--and every other human activity.

People can have a lot of psychological baggage about their appearance. If they find it easier to change something than just "get over it" that's their call--and nobody has the right to judge them for it.

Think about this: if science and technology progress to the point where we can choose every aspect of our appearance--like getting a one-shot chance to do a complete shapeshift like something from Star Trek--wouldn't everyone do it? Are you going to assert that you wouldn't trim off some fat, tone up a bit, take off a couple of moles, fix some scars, maybe add some height or length or bounciness? Are you 100% absolutely completely happy with the appearance of every part of your body?

I think the only reason more people don't alter their appearance is because it's too expensive, too painful, and far too limited in what can be accomplished. If costs go down and the technology improves, it will become more common. What if instead of going under the knife you could just pop a pill? Who wouldn't do that?
 
Its funny to me to hear so many people chiming in that people "shouldn't" get plastic surgery.

First, people seem to be focusing on the face only...plastic surgery applies to the entire body, not just the face.

Second, I know quite a few people whose appearance has been significantly improved by plastic surgery. Do you know what two of the most popular plastic surgeries for Chinese men are? Chin implants, and cheek implants. It may sound trivial, or vain...but folks, it makes quite a significant difference to their appearance. I have one Chinese friend whose chin was quite 'weak' (very little chin)...he got plastic surgery to get a chin implant, and it made a huge difference. Not just that he looked more handsome...he looked stronger, he looked more trustworthy. There is a tendency in many cultures to associate a 'weak' chin with physical and/or moral weakness.

And like it or not, it is an absolute reality that people who are more physically attractive will, all other things being equal, get better treatment, better opportunities, and higher salaries. Call it superficial if you want...but if I've got a reasonable way to improve my salary and my opportunities that involves a little nip and tuck, I see no reason why it should be considered 'wrong' or 'vain' or 'trivial' to do so.

Yeah, there are people who go overboard. Yeah, there are people who look terrible when its done. But there are an awful lot of people who've also benefited greatly from it.

You'll notice a bad plastic surgery job specifically because it is bad. You won't notice a good plastic surgery job because it is good. The fact that you can hold up some examples of bad surgeries doesn't in any way present a defensible case that people therefore shouldn't get it. Hell, by that argument, there are people who get bad haircuts...so therefore, I shouldn't get a haircut.

ETA: I've never had plastic surgery, personally. But I could see myself doing it in the future. And certainly have no problem with others who have it.
 
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Wolfman said:
You'll notice a bad plastic surgery job specifically because it is bad. You won't notice a good plastic surgery job because it is good. The fact that you can hold up some examples of bad surgeries doesn't in any way present a defensible case that people therefore shouldn't get it. Hell, by that argument, there are people who get bad haircuts...so therefore, I shouldn't get a haircut.
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This is a very good point.
 
arthwollipot said:
Well, it's partially what the OP said - that people look worse after bad cosmetic surgery than they did before (Michael Jackson's nose as an example), but it's also the risk of complications arising from surgery. Although surgery in general is usually very safe and straightforward, someone's still cutting into your body with a scalpel. I wouldn't think this would be something that you'd want to do if it wasn't absolutely necessary.
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Sure but that's no reason for people not to ever have surgery. It's a liberal choice that people are entitled to choose if they wish to, saying "no one should ever do it" is quite unfair.

Wolfman said:
Its funny to me to hear so many people chiming in that people "shouldn't" get plastic surgery.

First, people seem to be focusing on the face only...plastic surgery applies to the entire body, not just the face.

Second, I know quite a few people whose appearance has been significantly improved by plastic surgery. Do you know what two of the most popular plastic surgeries for Chinese men are? Chin implants, and cheek implants. It may sound trivial, or vain...but folks, it makes quite a significant difference to their appearance. I have one Chinese friend whose chin was quite 'weak' (very little chin)...he got plastic surgery to get a chin implant, and it made a huge difference. Not just that he looked more handsome...he looked stronger, he looked more trustworthy. There is a tendency in many cultures to associate a 'weak' chin with physical and/or moral weakness.

And like it or not, it is an absolute reality that people who are more physically attractive will, all other things being equal, get better treatment, better opportunities, and higher salaries. Call it superficial if you want...but if I've got a reasonable way to improve my salary and my opportunities that involves a little nip and tuck, I see no reason why it should be considered 'wrong' or 'vain' or 'trivial' to do so.

Yeah, there are people who go overboard. Yeah, there are people who look terrible when its done. But there are an awful lot of people who've also benefited greatly from it.

You'll notice a bad plastic surgery job specifically because it is bad. You won't notice a good plastic surgery job because it is good. The fact that you can hold up some examples of bad surgeries doesn't in any way present a defensible case that people therefore shouldn't get it. Hell, by that argument, there are people who get bad haircuts...so therefore, I shouldn't get a haircut.

ETA: I've never had plastic surgery, personally. But I could see myself doing it in the future. And certainly have no problem with others who have it.
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Right, this is what I was saying.

I was thinking I was out all alone on this one, sticking my neck out, but I'm glad to see I'm not :D .

Alex.
 
I agree with Wolfman. Aside from the obvious issue of people having a right to do whatever the hell they want to themselves without having ethical fingers pointed at them, we should acknowledge that we do live in a highly superficial society, good looking people get the better end of the stick.

I know it is true, because I am a gorgeous specimen of human being and everyone worships me like a god. I feel so bad for the sad ugly people around me, it makes me want to buy them all nosejobs.
 
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