rwguinn
Penultimate Amazing
Oh, really? Evidence?
Explain how it works and what it does that the already redundant BOP's don't?
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How Can they Stop the Oil Spill?
- Thread starter Unabogie
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Explain how it works and what it does that the already redundant BOP's don't?
TraneWreck
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Perhaps you should have read the WSJ article in the link that explained all of that. It even had a picture!!
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
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Apparently there was a hydraulic leak and dead battery in the BOP itself that physically prevented it from operating.
The switch in this article looks like it’s for remote activation. Had the BOP itself been working it may or may not have saved some time in getting it triggered, but in this case an alternate trigger doesn’t look like it would helped.
TraneWreck
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TraneWreck
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As I understand it, and perhaps I'm wrong, I'd be curious to read other sources, the accoustic switch was meant to trigger a secondary shut-off valve deeper in the pipe.
The primary safety device failed in this case, and the Cheney deregulation was based on the idea that the primary system was sufficient.
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
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Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
... And the demand for oil, perhaps ?
EHocking
Penultimate Amazing
I think you have got the function of this "switch" wrong.
The switch is merely a "deadman's" switch. It does nothing more than activate the existing BOPs in the event that control of the BOPs is lost at surface.
It does not provide secondary valves or further barriers - it is merely a back up actuator system for the BOPs.
It appears that the BOPs were actuated, but for one reason or another, did not contain the influx and thus the blow out. This is evident by subsequent attempts by ROV to further actuate the BOPs after the surface system (i.e. the rig) was lost.
To reiterate, this switch is merely that - a back up switch for the BOP system. It does not provide extra barriers or physical "shut offs" of the wellbore.
Think of it as a TV remote control as well as having an on-off switch on your TV. You can press the on-off button on either the TV or the remote, but if the TV isn't functioning, repeated pressing of the switch won't get the TV to run.
ETA: I have no idea on the expertise of the author of the following article, but there is a sales demonstration of what the switch does.
http://dailyhurricane.com/2010/05/acoustic-switch-would-not-have-saved-bp-well.html
ETA ETA: Note what BOP stands for, Blow Out Preventer. It is ONLY a last line of defence when you have lost control of a well. It is not a primary barrier or containment, nor a secondary barrier. If you have to actuate a BOP, you have literally lost pressure control downhole.
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dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
It's all the Evul Republican's fault...............
rwguinn
Penultimate Amazing
From the pictures I say today, the leak is coming from what appears to be casing (not drill stem) laying on the bottom.
This would indicate that the casing was blown out, to me. Not sure how the BOP would have helped, even though (I assume) it is mounted on what we always called the "Surface casing".
They keep talking about a hydraulic leak and low battery on the BOP--are these causes, or effects, of the blow-out. If that is casing (or even drill stem), the ejection would certainly have caused some damage, I would think. It looks like something violent happened down there.
This would indicate that the casing was blown out, to me. Not sure how the BOP would have helped, even though (I assume) it is mounted on what we always called the "Surface casing".
They keep talking about a hydraulic leak and low battery on the BOP--are these causes, or effects, of the blow-out. If that is casing (or even drill stem), the ejection would certainly have caused some damage, I would think. It looks like something violent happened down there.
macdoc
Philosopher
Soapy - thoughts on this emerging picture
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...t-of-greed-us-politicians-say/article1567051/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...t-of-greed-us-politicians-say/article1567051/
I substantially agree with EHocking's post 168. I repeat I'm unfamiliar with the acoustic device, but think he is correct in his assessment. I don't think it would have helped. And total reliance on a BOP is extremely unwise.
On the political issue, I can tell you this. Engineers make mistakes that kill people. Politicians make mistakes that kill nations. Never take engineering advice from a politician.
I'm witholding further comment on the blowout till I have more reliable data- and because I don't expect to be online much the next few days. For now, I think this was a procedural screw up primarily rather than an equipment failure. We need most urgently to know why the cement job failed, as it obviously did. We need to know why- in the absence of confirmation that the cement job was good- the riser was displaced to seawater.
I would particularly like to know why, when clearly asked about that by Sen. Sessions, all three witnesses dodged the question.
One thing I would like to add. In the legitimate concern over the environmental effects, it's easy to forget that 11 men died out there, trying to do their job, trying to put food on the plates of their family.
It's also easy to overlook the fact that 115 men and women survived . Look at the photos of the rig and marvel at that.
Some safety systems- and a great deal of safety training- worked well. My personal congratulations go to the personnel aboard the Transocean "Deepwater Horizon" for achieving something that is perhaps being forgotten here- a survival rate that some would consider miraculous. No miracles were involved. Just training and discipline and good people.
On the political issue, I can tell you this. Engineers make mistakes that kill people. Politicians make mistakes that kill nations. Never take engineering advice from a politician.
I'm witholding further comment on the blowout till I have more reliable data- and because I don't expect to be online much the next few days. For now, I think this was a procedural screw up primarily rather than an equipment failure. We need most urgently to know why the cement job failed, as it obviously did. We need to know why- in the absence of confirmation that the cement job was good- the riser was displaced to seawater.
I would particularly like to know why, when clearly asked about that by Sen. Sessions, all three witnesses dodged the question.
One thing I would like to add. In the legitimate concern over the environmental effects, it's easy to forget that 11 men died out there, trying to do their job, trying to put food on the plates of their family.
It's also easy to overlook the fact that 115 men and women survived . Look at the photos of the rig and marvel at that.
Some safety systems- and a great deal of safety training- worked well. My personal congratulations go to the personnel aboard the Transocean "Deepwater Horizon" for achieving something that is perhaps being forgotten here- a survival rate that some would consider miraculous. No miracles were involved. Just training and discipline and good people.
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Or a suicidal, insane economic system that cannot function without an ever-growing energy supply.
No
Rarely
Yes. Do you use anything made by Communists?
Not much.
Mostly not
A few building products.
Thanks for your imperialist message.
If I were living in the Roman Empire and benefitting from its infrastructure improvements, would that mean I'd have to avoid all Roman roads (many of which were built on top of the ones I used to walk on) in order to object to the empire's existence?
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My point is that you and I and TraneWreck all seem to agree it's hard to live in our society without using energy. If you think , (as I think we all do) that reducing that energy dependence is a good idea, then we have little to argue about. But If what you want is to live in the Roman Empire, I doubt we have much in common. They managed without industry because they kept slaves. If you prefer slavery to oil, we must agree to differ. I doubt that is your meaning. If you have useful suggestions or comments regarding living with neither oil nor slavery, I'll be happy to hear them, but purposeless bitching frankly bores me.
EHocking
Penultimate Amazing
It is quite hypocritical of politicians to say that oil industry greed caused this accident, since it is the greed of the government itself that allowed the federal regulator to water down it's own recommendation.
Note previous posts on just this subject and this paragraph in the article above,
"Investigators are turning up evidence that industry essentially designed its own safety procedures, with little oversight from the federal regulator, the Minerals Management Service."
Oil and gas generates BILLIONS of dollars of revenue for a government - in their greed to keep hold of it and encourage more to be found, the US government has pulled the teeth of its own regulator.
Now they wish to blame the oil industry because they operate under US government regulations.
This blame game was predicted earlier in the thread, so I'm not surprised.
EHocking said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_Alpha
Scroll down to the "Legacy of Accident " section.
"Most significant of these recommendations was that the responsibility for enforcing safety in the North Sea should be moved from the Department of Energy to the Health and Safety Executive, as having both production and safety overseen by the same agency was a conflict of interest.[16]"
It's an old song you're singing, EHocking.
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paiute
Graduate Poster
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Herbert Hoover was a damn good engineer, by all accounts. How did that work out for us?