Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Fulcanelli]

Expert opinion from veteran FBI Agent Steve Moore; "Regarding the potential of Amanda's footprints in bleach; household cleaners that contain bleach degrade at a much slower rate than pure hypochlorate (chlorine bleach). So they likely would be detectable for months."

1. I don't believe him. This is not what it says in the literature.

2. We know bleach is irrelevant for none ever existed. No cleaning products in the cottage contained any bleach and the girls, as testified in the trial, never used bleach containing products and were careful not to do so. So, you need to start to evidence the presence of bleach rather then assert it.

3. Bleach reacts to luminol differently then blood and investigators can easily tell the different.

Read the article that I posted.

Rudy could call you on the phone and tell you that he acted alone and you would still come here the next day and argue. You have no interest in the truth.

Evidently then, both the defence teams of Raffaele and Amanda don't believe in 'Bruce's truth' either, since they are now arguing for their appeal that the crime was committed by multiple persons. So Bruce, is your official statement now that both defence teams are wrong?

Rudy possibly locked the door to try and hide the horrible act that he just committed. He covered Meredith with the duvet also. Most likely for the same reason.

Except the evidence clearly shows he didn't lock the door, evidence you are wilfully ignoring. I don't think you're interested in 'truth' at all.

Do you have evidence that Amanda or Raffaele locked the door?

No, you don't.

There is abundant proof that Rudy was in the murder room. He is the only one other than Meredith that was there.

We have proof he didn't lock the door, which proves he didn't act alone, which disproves your scenario (the lone wolf) and therefore your argument.

The luminol prints were never proven to belong to Amanda. The luminol prints were never proven to have anything at all to do with this crime.

They were shown to have belonged to Amanda Knox in court. Judge Massei concurs they are Amanda Knox's prints.

Yes, that is exactly what happened. The prints in the hall were completely scrubbed away by the investigators. This is a known fact. They photographed the shoe prints set in Meredith's blood and scrubbed them off the floor.

I watched the entire video and witnessed this for myself.

They weren't being scrubbed 'away', the purpose was yo raise the content to test for DNA.

 

[Fulcanelli]

No, of course not. But the door was found locked, I think Rudy acted alone, and there is no evidence to suggest he did not lock the door.

Of course there's evidence he didn't lock the door, his own footprints prove he didn't.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Well, I just saw a video on YouTube that unexpectedly showed details of Meredith's body the day she was found. Out of respect for the victim, I think if people want to see photos or video of her, they should look for them on their own.

That is the same video that Raffaele's family and a couple of Telenorba execs are going on trial for later this month for leaking. They are also being sued by the Kercher family.

 

[Amazer]

Yes, that is exactly what happened. The prints in the hall were completely scrubbed away by the investigators. This is a known fact. They photographed the shoe prints set in Meredith's blood and scrubbed them off the floor.

I watched the entire video and witnessed this for myself.

I'm sure you understand that I'm not going to just take your word for it. Please provide a link to this video.

 

[Fulcanelli]

None in the murder room, however. No reasonable court would accept a resident's DNA as evidence of a crime.

Yes they will, if it's not where it's supposed to be and can be effectively argued it was deposited during the crime.

P.S. Amanda does not have to prove she was not at the cottage. The prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she committed the crime.

Oh yes she does...once the prosecution have provided evidence that she was at the cottage.

Correction: After three days, the police chose to stop believing Amanda and Raffaele when they said they were together at his apartment. Based on no evidence, they interrogated the pair and arrested them on the basis of what they were able to persuade them to say at the interrogations.

They chose to stop believing Amanda and Raffaele because Raffaele dropped Amanda's alibi and said she went out. But as for what you are explicitly arguing, again, just more groundless assertions of fact from you.

It has already been explained that footprints in front of Meredith's door, including any Rudy might have left, had been cleaned up. Not to mention the FACT that Rudy could have locked the door without standing in front of it.

What footprints in front of the door...cleaned up by 'who'?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Bob writes:

How did Rudy/Raffaele only manage to leave one footprint in the bathroom?

He removed his right shoe to wash it under the bidet. It's the only explanation that makes sense, regardless of who you think left it there. It explains the print, and it fits with the blood circling the drain of the bidet and the trail of diluted blood drops that run from the drain to the rim of the basin.

It makes NO sense at all. Not just the 'how' of it, but the 'why' of it. Neither does it explain why the person who made the print is heading for the shower or the sink and not the bidet. And if he stood to wash his shoe in the bidet there'd be another print in front of the bidet...there isn't.

How would the sole of his foot be covered in blood if he was wearing a shoe? If his shoe was covered in blood, how come he left no prints heading to the bathroom? If he went to all that trouble to wash his shoe, why did he then go right after and step in lots of blood and get his shoes bloody again? How come after washing his shoe, his shoe didn't leave luminol revealed trainer prints afterwards (you don't get rid of all the micro traces of blood by rinsing it in the bidet). Why wash his shoe in the bidet when the obvious place to wash it is the sink or the shower, since they are raised up to his height?

 

[Fulcanelli]

Dream on. Did Amanda stand on one foot to lock the door? If not, then where is her other footprint?

It's very simple Mary...only one of her feet had blood residue on it. This isn't rocket science you know.

 

[christianahannah]

For anyone interested in the door to Meredith's room, here are all the pictures I have:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door01.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door02.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door03.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door04.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door05.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door06.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door07.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door08.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door09.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door10.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door11.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door12.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door13.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door14.jpg
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door15.jpg

Charlie thank you for being willing to post the photos. I was very sad looking at them and while I don't blame you for that, I think a warning concerning the photos would be a good idea.

I was interested in the type lock the door had and whether it would be easy for someone to lock the door when leaving (even if they were in a hurry). Would the lock on Meredith's door use a skeleton-type key? I would think that type of key would be easier to use rather than a regular house key with notches and grooves.

 

[Alt+F4]

Yes, that is exactly what happened. The prints in the hall were completely scrubbed away by the investigators. This is a known fact. They photographed the shoe prints set in Meredith's blood and scrubbed them off the floor.

I watched the entire video and witnessed this for myself.

Where can this video be viewed? Thanks.

 

[Dan O.]

I'm not clear on how that door works, which is one reason I posted the pictures. Would it be necessary to stand outside the door and turn the key, or could you turn the key and remove it from the lock on the inside and then pull the door shut behind you?

The lockset on Meredith's door is an AGB Centro interroom lock. There are no buttons or knobs to activate the deadbolt, only a single keyslot where the key can be inserted from either side to lock or unlock the deadbolt.

I believe Amanda made a comment about Raffaele trying to peer through the keyhole to see if Meredith was in her room. Lighting would be limited but it should have been visible that there was no occupant or bedding on the bed and thus the speculation that Meredith was sleeping on the floor.

If it's needed, I could try to reproduce what the keyhole image would look like.

 

[odeed]

The lockset on Meredith's door is an AGB Centro interroom lock. There are no buttons or knobs to activate the deadbolt, only a single keyslot where the key can be inserted from either side to lock or unlock the deadbolt.

I believe Amanda made a comment about Raffaele trying to peer through the keyhole to see if Meredith was in her room. Lighting would be limited but it should have been visible that there was no occupant or bedding on the bed and thus the speculation that Meredith was sleeping on the floor.

If it's needed, I could try to reproduce what the keyhole image would look like.

Have you a quote or source for the highlighted part, I cannot remember it being discussed before?

 

[Dan O.]

Have you a quote or source for the highlighted part, I cannot remember it being discussed before?

I find it in Massei's Report^* quoted from Amanda's email home. But it's strange that I don't find it in the email itself.

Of course it hasn't been discussed before because the Guilters would be all over it as proof that Amanda knew Meredith was lying on her floor.


(*) Page 19

 

[Alt+F4]

I believe Amanda made a comment about Raffaele trying to peer through the keyhole to see if Meredith was in her room. Lighting would be limited but it should have been visiblecthat there was no occupant or bedding on the bed and thus the speculation that Meredith was sleeping on the floor.

Why would they speculate that she was sleeping on the floor? The obvious speculation would be that she wasn't home. There was zero reason to believe any harm had come to her, yet Raffaele said she was missing.

 

[Amazer]

Why would they speculate that she was sleeping on the floor? The obvious speculation would be that she wasn't home. There was zero reason to believe any harm had come to her, yet Raffaele said she was missing.

[FOA logic]
Well since it is possible that people sleep on the floor, we can therefore be 110% certain that Meredith slept on the floor too!
[/FOA logic]

Did Raffaele really say that she was missing? Or could that just be poorly translated? If he did say missing, then it's no surprise that the police suspected him, and by extension his girlfriend, to be more then just innocent bystanders.

 

[Alt+F4]

[FOA logic]
Well since it is possible that people sleep on the floor, we can therefore be 110% certain that Meredith slept on the floor too!
[/FOA logic]

Did Raffaele really say that she was missing? Or could that just be poorly translated? If he did say missing, then it's no surprise that the police suspected him, and by extension his girlfriend, to be more then just innocent bystanders.

This is Candace Dempsey's translation of the phone call:

RS: Hello, good morning, listen, ah ... someone broke into the house through a window and made a big mess. There is a closed door. The address is Via della Pergola #7 in Perugia.

Police: They managed to enter that way, they broke a window? And how do you know that's how they entered?

RS: You can see the signs. There are also stains of blood in the bathroom. They didn't take anything. The problem is the door is locked ... There is a lot of blood.

Police: There is a locked door? Which door is locked?

RS: The one belonging to the roommate who isn't here and we don't know where she is. Yes, yes, we tried to call her, but she does not respond to anyone.

Police: Okay, good, now we will send a patrol so we verify the situation.

Here's a recording of the actual call in Italian.
http://it.truveo.com/Sollecito-chiama-il-112-telefonata-sottotitolata/id/2792222671

 

[bucketoftea]

Why would they speculate that she was sleeping on the floor? The obvious speculation would be that she wasn't home. There was zero reason to believe any harm had come to her, yet Raffaele said she was missing.

And didn't AK say something tragic may have happened to Filomena on the phone?

Do I remember this correctly?

 

[Amazer]

This is Candace Dempsey's translation of the phone call:

In context it doesn't sound so out of the ordinary.

Here's a recording of the actual call in Italian.
http://it.truveo.com/Sollecito-chiama-il-112-telefonata-sottotitolata/id/2792222671

I've listened to it... but my Italian is definitely not up to the mark for that. I would have expected a little more excitement in his voice upon discovering that his girlfriends place was broken in to and that there is a fair amount of blood in the apartment. However, it wouldn't have raised my suspicion either.

 

[katy_did]

There is such a thing and it's called peer review. Chris and Mark have all the opportunity they need to present their findings and have them critically reviewed. So far, the team cannot even agree on when, where, or how any of the DNA evidence was contaminated or invalidated.

In fact, if you read Chris carefully, you will discover that he merely does not rule out the possibility of contamination. Nobody else on this board (and probably at PMF) has done so either. If he intends to go any further--proving contamination--then he's free to do so. Scientists routinely provide evidence for their claims.

What are they waiting for?

But Mark, Chris and Greggy are not arguing anything radically new. They're simply talking about the application of existing principles, arguing that existing protocols should be followed, and that where they are not, some supporting evidence needs to be provided to show that the new technique works. Stefanoni is the one who needs to submit her research for peer review, because it IS brand new. She didn't use LCN testing, she used her own brand new version of it. This is why I'm pretty certain the knife evidence will be thrown out at some stage during the appeals process.

As Greggy said, you can't use a research project to help convict someone of murder. That's what Stefanoni did.

 

[katy_did]

Speak for yourself please Katy.

Go on then, have a go at refuting the arguments about the knife put forward by Mark, Chris and Greggy (mentioning gardening doesn't count).

I guess you missed all those experts speaking for both the prosecution and for Meredith Kercher's team during the trial. And unlike Waterbury, they ARE qualified to do so.

Why shouldn't the knife evidence survive the appeal if it survived the trial and was held to be strong? How do you think the defence will get a knife thrown out in just five days that they couldn't get thrown out in a whole 11 month month trial plus a one month pre-trial? For over two years now we've been hearing from Amanda's family that the knife has either been thrown out (which it never was) or will be thrown out, echoed by their supporters. You people remind me of that Iraqi General guy who each day was coming out to the press saying how they are defeating the coalition and and will turn them back any day now.

Again though, you're not tackling the serious problems with the knife evidence which were outlined in the posts from Greggy I quoted. In an earlier post, you suggested that there is no problem with LCN DNA. But what Stefanoni did wasn't standard LCN testing, was it? It was her own super-duper new version of LCN, which isn't supported by any evidence showing its accuracy or reliability. There seems to be broad agreement by people on all sides of the case that the knife won't survive the Supreme Court appeal. Hopefully it will be deemed inadmissible in the second stage of the appeal, too (if there's an independent review, this is what I'd expect).

 

[katy_did]

No, and neither did they Amanda. They started questioning her at past midnight and she'd named Patrick by 1:45 am. That's hardly most of the night.

Do you have a source showing that Amanda's questioning began past midnight? Kestrel earlier quoted Amanda's phone call to Filomena, at around 10:30pm, which ends with Amanda saying that someone 'wants to talk to me'.