Love the Christian, but not the Christianity.

[AvalonXQ]

I know, all because of what I said in the abortion thread, that you had such a visceral response to, for some reason...

No, not entirely. I generally dislike your attitude towards all other posters here. It seems more belligerent than communicative and more judgmental than friendly. It reflects poorly on Christians.

 

[AvalonXQ]

I knew that was the whole reason for your recent antagonism toward me when there was no essential difference in our substance of the moment.

No difference in substance, but still a serious difference in tone -- in respect for others. See above.

I'm not here for anyone's approval or scorn. I don't care.

Which is a big part of the problem. A Christian who doesn't care is Doing It Wrong.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Right, Avalon, and your dismissal of all non-christians about contradictions in the bible isn't belligerent. When you say that we simply don't understand or have the education/capacity to understand, that's insultive.

 

[154]

No, not entirely. I generally dislike your attitude towards all other posters here. It seems more belligerent than communicative and more judgmental than friendly. It reflects poorly on Christians.

You be the touchy-feely nice cop then, and I'll be the bad cop, and they will hate us both, and not because of us.

Where have I judged anyone versus where have I been repeatedly judged harshly by everyone?


"So they took the bull which was given them, and they prepared it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even till noon, saying, "O Baal, hear us!" But there was no voice; no one answered. Then they leaped about the altar which they had made.

And so it was, at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, "Cry aloud, for he is a god; either he is meditating, or he is busy, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is sleeping and must be awakened."
1Kings 18:26,27

""But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

"Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.'

Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold?

And, 'Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.'

Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift?

Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it.

He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it.

And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.

Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.

Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,

and say, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.'

"Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.

Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt.

Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,

that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar."
Matthew 23:13-35

That wasn't very nice of Jesus. I wonder if anyone told Him that He reflected poorly on Christianity?

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints."
Jude1:3

Contend earnestly. You do it your way. I'll do it mine. He will Judge us.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Right, Avalon, and your dismissal of all non-christians about contradictions in the bible isn't belligerent.

It's an appropriate response to your dismissal of all explanations of contradictions to the Bible as faith-based.
I didn't claim that all non-Christians are lazy or ignorant. Your approach to this subject is. Others' are not.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Contend earnestly. You do it your way. I'll do it mine. He will Judge us.

I'll continue to do it Paul's way. You continue to do it Satan's way.
And, yes, He will.

 

[Marduk]

Where have I judged anyone versus where have I been repeatedly judged harshly by everyone?

Poor you, arent you supposed to turn the other cheek, shame you just have the two then eh


a reasonable man might be asking themselves at this point why they are being judged harshly, an ignorant one of course would just moan about it without caring

 

[thaiboxerken]

It's an appropriate response to your dismissal of all explanations of contradictions to the Bible as faith-based.
I didn't claim that all non-Christians are lazy or ignorant. Your approach to this subject is. Others' are not.

Right, just the ones that think there are contradictions in the bible.

Psalm 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

 

[godless dave]

If you first act as a fine and decent person to me and others, I don't care what you believe about my beliefs, but I would feel sad that you would "hate" incarnate Good.

He didn't say he hated Christ, but that he hated Christianity.

 

[godless dave]

What is it that every Christian starts with the 'you just don't know'?

And then follows it with some Bible excerpt I'm familiar with or some general explanation of Christianity I've heard a thousand times already.

Trust me, we know. We already know what Christians believe and what the Bible says.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Right, just the ones that think there are contradictions in the bible.

No, just the ones that think that if they see an apparent contradiction, there's no need to have a deeper understanding to determine if it's an actual contradiction.
Basically the ignorant fools who discount all apologetics as being devoid of reason.

 

[godless dave]

No, just the ones that think that if they see an apparent contradiction, there's no need to have a deeper understanding to determine if it's an actual contradiction.

What about the ones who sought a deeper understanding and determined that it was still a contradiction?

All too often that "deeper understanding" is just verbal gymnastics to try to get the text to be something it's not.

 

[gentlehorse]

I believe that sexual orientation has strong genetic and early environmental components and is much more a matter of biology than choice.
Since sexual behavior, and not sexual orientation, is what my religion is concerned with, this is entirely irrelevant. All of us have biological drives to do things that are sinful; all of us are expected to refrain.
There are many believing, faithful Christians that are attracted to members of their own gender. There are many believing, faithful Christians that are attracted to members of the opposite gender that they're unmarried to. There are many believing, faithful Christians who are attracted to children.
The only question is whether they sin by acting on these urges in a way prohibited by God.

How do you reconcile the above with:

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[Robo Sapien]

The Skeptics Annotated Bible contains every single contradiction to be found in the good book. Also featuring the Quran and Book of Mormon.

The Bible is brimming over with contradictions in terms, to say otherwise is complete denial. Where I take issue is how believers will defend it by selectively choosing which context to interpret the writings to best suit their current argument. Everything is to be intepreted literally until you present an established fact with substantial evidence that contradicts the Bible, and you will be told that particular passage is meant to be interpreted metaphorically. Point out a metaphor that contradicts the fundamentals, and you will be told that is just a historical detail with no significance.

 

[thaiboxerken]

No, just the ones that think that if they see an apparent contradiction, there's no need to have a deeper understanding to determine if it's an actual contradiction.
Basically the ignorant fools who discount all apologetics as being devoid of reason.

Apologetics are just a set of excuses to justify a pre-determined belief.

 

[AvalonXQ]

The Skeptics Annotated Bible contains every single contradiction to be found in the good book.

Talk about the worst possible source to justify your argument.
The SAB is a great example of what happens if you look for apparent contradictions without any actual study or knowledge of the Bible. If you pull up ten random "contradictions" from that site, I would wager that any respected atheist Biblical scholar will acknowledge that none of them are actual contradictions.
The "contradictions" on SAB are, generally, on the same level of argument as: "If we came from monkeys, why are there monkeys?" It deserves the same level of response -- educate yourself and the question becomes silly.

 

[thaiboxerken]

No, just the ones that think that if they see an apparent contradiction, there's no need to have a deeper understanding to determine if it's an actual contradiction.
Basically the ignorant fools who discount all apologetics as being devoid of reason.

Why do we need apologetics at all if the following is true?

Psalm 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

Talk about the worst possible source to justify your argument.
The SAB is a great example of what happens if you look for apparent contradictions without any actual study or knowledge of the Bible. If you pull up ten random "contradictions" from that site, I would wager that any respected atheist Biblical scholar will acknowledge that none of them are actual contradictions.
The "contradictions" on SAB are, generally, on the same level of argument as: "If we came from monkeys, why are there monkeys?" It deserves the same level of response -- educate yourself and the question becomes silly.

I will agree that it is a shotgun approach to the "contradiction" assertion. However, I doubt that atheists Biblical scholars will agree that all of the contradictions listed there are invalid. Do you have any evidence to support your assertion?

 

[godless dave]

This thread highlights one of the things I dislike most about Christianity - the idea that loving every other human being is a good and desirable thing.

Now, it may very well be that what the English Bibles translate as "love" meant something different in the Greek of the New Testament, which wouldn't make my point moot but would put it in perspective. Regardless, modern, English-speaking Christians often talking about loving one another and loving your enemy. And I don't think that's a good idea at all.

Respecting one another is, in my opinion, a good thing to strive toward. Treating all human beings with a certain amount of dignity just because they're human like you is an important part of a healthy society and a happy life. It's a good idea to respect your enemy, to remember that he is a human being just like you, with his own perspective, experiences, and desires.

But love? I reserve that for a small, select group of people, who I can count on the fingers of two hands.

 

[AvalonXQ]

I will agree that it is a shotgun approach to the "contradiction" assertion. However, I doubt that atheists Biblical scholars will agree that all of the contradictions listed there are invalid. Do you have any evidence to support your assertion?

I didn't say that; I said that I'd wager they'd find 10 chosen at random invalid. In other words, "Look at how full of contradictions the Bible is -- see all these things a site says that aren't actually contradictions?" is a terrible argument.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I sometimes wonder what Jesus would say to atheists.

My guess: "Come, follow me."