Noah's Ark found?

[Complexity]

"the fact that"

Please give me your best figurative and metaphorical understandings then...

Why do you persist in believing that we have nothing better to do than whatever you ask/tell us to do?

You are the google+1th fundie to make these inane demands.

No. We will not do what you ask. It would be wrong to do so. Stop asking.

Go read some science.

 

[Ladewig]

I know.

Kryptonite.

LOL wut?

But skeptics quoting the parts they don't like is cool.

The clear majority of Christians do not consider the Bible to be the literal, inerrant, perfect Word of God. Those people can look at some passage of the Bible that paints God in an unflattering way and say, "we can learn from the Bible by looking at the entirety of the Message instead of insisting that every verse in the Pentateuch is a literal description of an historical event." Just as they can understand the importance of being prepared for the second coming Jesus by reading a metaphorical story about ten bridesmaids, they can can understand the importance of being prepared by reading a metaphorical story about Noah's Flood.

I don't quote the Bible to my Christian friends. I only feel the need to quote the more absurd verses (or as you put it, "the verses skeptics don't like") to inerrantists.

 

[tsig]

Ooooooh, I get it now.

So this is why the Noah story is so important. If the flood didn't happen, Jesus isn't coming.

That explains the fundies desperation and their willingness to being ridiculed for their phantasmagorical "explanations" for the flood that never was.

Not only that but if there's no flood then Jesus words are not true and there goes their whole belief structure.

 

[I Ratant]

I know.

Kryptonite.

But skeptics quoting the parts they don't like is cool.

.
No, there's a spam limit on quoting.

 

[Radrook]

LOL wut?




The clear majority of Christians do not consider the Bible to be the literal, inerrant, perfect Word of God. Those people can look at some passage of the Bible that paints God in an unflattering way and say, "we can learn from the Bible by looking at the entirety of the Message instead of insisting that every verse in the Pentateuch is a literal description of an historical event." Just as they can understand the importance of being prepared for the second coming Jesus by reading a metaphorical story about ten bridesmaids, they can can understand the importance of being prepared by reading a metaphorical story about Noah's Flood.

I don't quote the Bible to my Christian friends. I only feel the need to quote the more absurd verses (or as you put it, "the verses skeptics don't like") to inerrantists.

Anyone can say anything about what groups in their majority supposedly believe.
Can you please cite the statistical study that you are deriving your data from.
Thanks!

 

[Simon39759]

Anyone can say anything about what groups in their majority supposedly believe.
Can you please cite the statistical study that you are deriving your data from.
Thanks!

Are you really that ignorant?
I don't want to be [excessively] rude, but that's a really ignorant question...

Most Christian belong to sect that do not believe in the inherance of the Bible. The Roman Catholic church itself accounts for more than 50% of the world's Christians as do the Eastern Orthodox churches, the second biggest group as well as the Anglicans and a significant portion of the Protestants...

 

[dio]

Anyone can say anything about what groups in their majority supposedly believe.
Can you please cite the statistical study that you are deriving your data from.
Thanks!

You don't need statistical studies for this. Just look around you.

The western world is in its vast majority Christian, yet we abolished slavery, sexual discrimination, and we eat shrimp.

We don't teach the flood story in history class, and we don't teach genesis in biology class because they are just stories that have been proven wrong, and most Christians are not drawn to the black hole of obscurantism that bible literalists so comfortably dwell in.

 

[shadron]

I don't know whether it has been mentioned above or not, but the wiki article mentions the wood testing results released this year. The university of Hong Kong found the sample to be petrified Cyprus-like tree. An unknown lab also released a carbon-14 age of 4,800 years for the sample. Does anyone see a problem with that?

I noted the problem on the wiki page with an edit.

 

[kerikiwi]

Radrook, you seem to have ovelooked this again.
Any chance of an answer?

I don't think there is enough concensus here to allow the use of 'we'.
So, do you, Radrook, take it as historical fact?
If so, why?

The 'it' refers to the ark.

 

[Marduk]

Anyone can say anything about what groups in their majority supposedly believe.
Can you please cite the statistical study that you are deriving your data from.
Thanks!

Accept it, your beliefs are shared by the smallest percentage of Christians yet you sound off like you are the largest

insecure much ?

 

[Simon39759]

I don't know whether it has been mentioned above or not, but the wiki article mentions the wood testing results released this year. The university of Hong Kong found the sample to be petrified Cyprus-like tree. An unknown lab also released a carbon-14 age of 4,800 years for the sample. Does anyone see a problem with that?

I noted the problem on the wiki page with an edit.

I am not sure. What's wrong with it?

Apart from the fact that there is at least one know cypress that is actually older than that (and still alive)...

 

[John Jones]

I am not sure. What's wrong with it?

Apart from the fact that there is at least one know cypress that is actually older than that (and still alive)...

Can a tree become petrified in 4800 years? Would it have any ¹⁴C left after petrification?

 

[154]

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith."

Hebrews 11:6,7


"Thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth."
And God said: "This is the sign of the covenant which I make between Me and you, and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
I set My rainbow in the cloud, and it shall be for the sign of the covenant between Me and the earth.
It shall be, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the rainbow shall be seen in the cloud;
and I will remember My covenant which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh.
The rainbow shall be in the cloud, and I will look on it to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth."
And God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth."

Genesis 9:11-17

 

[John Jones]

Yes. I've read the Bible more than once.

The Bible is not supporting evidence for what's written in the Bible.

 

[Marduk]

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith."

Hebrews 11:6,7


"Thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth."
And God said: "This is the sign of the covenant which I make between Me and you, and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
I set My rainbow in the cloud, and it shall be for the sign of the covenant between Me and the earth.
It shall be, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the rainbow shall be seen in the cloud;
and I will remember My covenant which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh.
The rainbow shall be in the cloud, and I will look on it to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth."
And God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth."

Genesis 9:11-17

Marduk 5:10 "What a load of religious claptrap"

 

[shadron]

How convenient for you.

How many 'basic kinds' were there (or are there)? Care to enumerate them?

What is the relationship between 'basic kinds' and species?

Pick any three of these 'basic kinds' and list all of the species that correspond to each.

Answer if you can.

Utter idiocy.

In creationist terms the types are apparently called baramins, and the study is baraminology. The guru is Todd Wood, a PhD in biology teaching at Bryan College, and director of Center for Origins Research. Some of his analysis is pretty deep and leading him in some (for him) pretty weird areas of research (horse types, and assigning Australpithecus sediba to Homo). He has a blog; it's at http://toddcwood.blogspot.com/, and the latest article is on the Neadertal finds. he seems to be an honest person; he's taken a bunch of heat from fundies for some of his findings.

I'm not trying to vouch for him. I was lead to some of his stuff, and was surprised by the depth of teh research in what I thought was just a black hole of creationist results. Of course, his research can be interpreted in many ways...

 

[Simon39759]

Can a tree become petrified in 4800 years?

Yes. As far as I know, petrification can be very fast, in the hundred of years.

Would it have any ¹⁴C left after petrification?

I believe so.
The replacement is a gradual process so it seems possible to me that a recent fossil would still have enough carbon left to make this kind of analysis, but it is not my area of specialty, of course.

 

[Complexity]

"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith."

Hebrews 11:6,7


"Thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth."
And God said: "This is the sign of the covenant which I make between Me and you, and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
I set My rainbow in the cloud, and it shall be for the sign of the covenant between Me and the earth.
It shall be, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the rainbow shall be seen in the cloud;
and I will remember My covenant which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh.
The rainbow shall be in the cloud, and I will look on it to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth."
And God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth."

Genesis 9:11-17

You've been warned about piddling in the house.

Oh, my kindom for a rolled-up newspaper!

 

[shadron]

Can a tree become petrified in 4800 years? Would it have any ¹⁴C left after petrification?

Petrification replaces the wood in a sample with rock, usually dissolved calcites and in some cases silicon oxides. There should be no carbon left, and probable contamination of any sample with carbon carried in the water.

 

[kerikiwi]

154 is another one who seems to be incapable of actually responding to anything, but I live in hope.
154 did you not notice this?

Can you provide an example in this thread?
And also explain, in your own words, just what is the relevance of your biblical quote to the fact that the ark story is not literal?

It was in response to an earlier post of yours, yet you simply come back with more bible passages which, I am very confident, nobody will bother to read.
Try using your own words and ideas to explain what it is you want to say.