Smoking Gun for Ratzinger. That's it!

[Complexity]

I'm holding my breath for someone to consistently highlight all the "I"s and condemn you accordingly...

There's a method to my madness.

I refer, of course, to my indulgence in starting sentences with 'I' in that post.

I saw a video once of a guy hypnotizing a chicken.

Thought I'd give it a try.

 

[Sledge]

I don't agree. I think free speech is more important.

Cobblers. Someone wants to believe that it's wrong to be gay? Fine. Someone wants to stand in the street shouting that at passersby? **** 'em.

 

[Robin]

How long do you suppose it will be
until left-wingnut extremist radical progressive socialist homosexual atheist militants
criminalize Christianity?

Careful, if any of that spittle lands on your keyboard it might short it out.

Do you know of any left-wing radical progressive socialist homosexual atheist militants?

I think I might have met one, or even two during the eighties.

But yes, you are probably right, they will probably take over the world with their flying monkeys and criminalise Christianity.

To answer your questions, I think that this might happen in about 5 to 10 years. 15 tops.

I think you ought to go and start a campaign to stop this terrible conspiracy.

 

[Rincewind]

My 2 cents:
Priests are generally seen as respected members of any community.
Therefore, any abuse of this respect is particularly disgusting - especially preying on the most vulnerable members of society.
For any religion not to have the clearly defined & publicised policy of zero tolerance of this behaviour is frankly totally unacceptable.
This poilcy, it should go without saying, should have been in place many, many years ago.

IMO the RCC fails any and all tests of their sincerity in this matter.

 

[Lallante]

Free speech is an odd one. It's surely not the speech itself that should be free, but rather the sharing of ideas. Phrasing it as free speech is rather unnuanced and seems to capture inflicting your speech on people who dont want to listen to it.

 

[Meadmaker]

How long do you suppose it will be
until left-wingnut extremist radical progressive socialist homosexual atheist militants
criminalize Christianity?

Not Soon Enough!!!!!


Just kidding, but as long as there was some paranoia floating about, I thought I might as well add to it.

 

[Meadmaker]

Cobblers. Someone wants to believe that it's wrong to be gay? Fine. Someone wants to stand in the street shouting that at passersby? **** 'em.

I definitely agree with Robin on this one. If it is legal to stand in the street shouting at passersby then the fact that the content of the speech is offensive to some, or even many, of the passersby should not be cause for arrest.

If this story had come out of America, I am quite certain the ACLU would take the guy's case in a heartbeat, and it would be thrown out of court very soon, and I think that makes America a better place to live than the UK, in that one aspect, anyway.

 

[Sledge]

Again, I disagree. The right to free speech is important, but I don't see how that includes the right to wander the streets deliberately offending people. What if I got my stepladder out and stood atop it in the high street whilst shouting how black people are subhuman? Or that people with big noses are monsters? Is that ok?

Americans are weird.

 

[Simon39759]

I'm holding my breath for someone to consistently highlight all the "I"s and condemn you accordingly...

Why would we do that?
He is only stating his own opinion. Complexity has written much more incendiary posts and some I disagree with much more in the past...

I don't know... if people who call themselves Christian actually did a good job of following the example laid out in the NT, they'd be pretty awesome people.

I disagree.
I think that the NT testament preaches a socialistic cultish hive-mind when submission and obedience are valued over curiosity and critical thinking...
It sure is a large step up from the baby killing central character of the old testament, but it's still not a model I'd aspire too. We can do much better.

 

[Simon39759]

I definitely agree with Robin on this one. If it is legal to stand in the street shouting at passersby then the fact that the content of the speech is offensive to some, or even many, of the passersby should not be cause for arrest.

If this story had come out of America, I am quite certain the ACLU would take the guy's case in a heartbeat, and it would be thrown out of court very soon, and I think that makes America a better place to live than the UK, in that one aspect, anyway.

I agree.
But it is not the way it works in our society.

In our society, you stand in the street making a ruckus and insult the cop when he comes to talk to you... You end up in jail at least for the night (Dale McAlpine was released on bail, by the way, he has not disappeared in some kind Socialist dungeon).
Sure, it is a concern in term of Free speech but, that's still S.O.P.

The only reason why people are surprised is that we are used religious hecklers to get a free pass.

 

[Roadtoad]

Why would we do that?
He is only stating his own opinion. Complexity has written much more incendiary posts and some I disagree with much more in the past...

While this is true, the point Comp was making with the post cited is valid.

We do not want religious belief outlawed. In doing so, you make the believers martyrs, and rather than scaring them away from their beliefs, or others, you wind up making them an unnecessary magnet. This is part of the mindset behind the whackos with the Truth Movement: The government is trying to silence us! We MUST be on the right track, (even though the government has no interest in silencing them, and when they are arrested, it's for disturbing the peace or other petty crimes.)

The point that Comp is making is that those of us who have come from the Religious Realm outgrew our beliefs in mythos and magick, and recognized not just how silly we were, but how destructive we were being with our xenophobia, a fear which was amplified by the false flags presented by our pastors/etc., all in the name of a Salvation which simply does not exist.

I'm not saying that what religion preaches is entirely bad. Quite the opposite: I can't think of a better lesson to be learned than to treat others as you would wish to be treated. The lessons of compassion taught by Jesus, (or whomever the book was supposed to be about), have great value to society. The notion of forgiveness is critical. The greater tragedy is that of all people, Christians are among the least forgiving, and among the cruelest. And while most of the cruelty inflicted is not of the extreme nature as we've seen with the RCC, in this case or myriad others, it remains there.

I can tell you that when a Protestant Christian changes churches, all the friends he leaves behind in the previous congregation tend to avoid that person, as though they've somehow turned apostate, when, in fact, it may simply be a decision based on geography: The new church may simply be a block or two away, instead of across town. An individual is shunned, an unwarranted and cruel act designed to induce guilt where none should exist. And God/Ed/FSM/GTITS/Momma forbid that a departure from a given congregation have ANY bona fide reason! The pastor was trying to get into your wife's panties? You're the one who's at fault, not your adulterous minister.

Been there, done that.

I'm sorry, but the attempt to turn what Complexity said into a call for the arrest and internment of Christians is an act of cowardice. Comp not only didn't say it, he doesn't want it. He's said so in the past, and trying to twist the man's words into a call for persecution is such a miserable, wasteful tactic, it leaves me reaching for the "Ignore" button. I hate dishonesty, and it was the Church's dishonesty that led me to leave. 154's dishonesty has now been shown, and if anything, it reveals that, yes, there is an Antichrist, an he's probably wearing a clerical collar. In the name of preserving the Church, he's not going to target it, he'll just claim that others are.

Not that there's much to fear on the other side of this: Without a heaven or hell to bugger the rest of us, the threats posed are more temporal.

Which, I think, is one of the points Comp was trying to make.

Too bad 154, with the dishonesty provided in the post, couldn't see that with said post, it was actually bolstering everything Comp was trying to say. But, as we say on the Highways, You can't fix stupid.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

How long do you suppose it will be
until left-wingnut extremist radical progressive socialist homosexual atheist militants
criminalize Christianity?

Any reason anyone should?

 

[154]

I'm sorry, but the attempt to turn what Complexity said into a call for the arrest and internment of Christians is an act of cowardice. Comp not only didn't say it, he doesn't want it. He's said so in the past, and trying to twist the man's words into a call for persecution is such a miserable, wasteful tactic, it leaves me reaching for the "Ignore" button. I hate dishonesty, and it was the Church's dishonesty that led me to leave. 154's dishonesty has now been shown, and if anything, it reveals that, yes, there is an Antichrist, an he's probably wearing a clerical collar. In the name of preserving the Church, he's not going to target it, he'll just claim that others are.

...Too bad 154, with the dishonesty provided in the post, couldn't see that with said post, it was actually bolstering everything Comp was trying to say. But, as we say on the Highways, You can't fix stupid.

My couple of recent posts here had nothing to do with Complexity.

So you then say I said things I didn't say, say I use tactics I didn't use, and insult me...

You are the dishonest one here.

 

[Meadmaker]

Again, I disagree. The right to free speech is important, but I don't see how that includes the right to wander the streets deliberately offending people. What if I got my stepladder out and stood atop it in the high street whilst shouting how black people are subhuman? Or that people with big noses are monsters? Is that ok?

On that particular streetcorner, would it be legal to set up your stepladder and yell, "Eat at Pizza Hut!", "Vote for Obama" , "To Hell with the Pope" or "Go Cubbies! Win the Rose Bowl!"

If so, then you can yell that blacck people are subhuman.

If not, then you can't. You can be arrested for disturbing the peace or creating a nuissance, or if your words are such that people consider them a legitimate threat you can be arrested for threatening people. However, you can't be arrested just for being offensive.

Of course, exactly when speech crosses the line from offensive to threatening, or from annoying to disturbing the peace often involves a judgement call, and the policeman and/or judge is more likely to rule against you for saying "To Hell with the Pope" than "Go Cubbies", but that's a separate issue. He would still have to make the case that the charge was based on the possibility of inciting violence as opposed to simply insulting Catholics.

Americans are weird.

And free.

 

[Meadmaker]

My 2 cents:
Priests are generally seen as respected members of any community.
Therefore, any abuse of this respect is particularly disgusting - especially preying on the most vulnerable members of society.
For any religion not to have the clearly defined & publicised policy of zero tolerance of this behaviour is frankly totally unacceptable.
This poilcy, it should go without saying, should have been in place many, many years ago.

IMO the RCC fails any and all tests of their sincerity in this matter.

Welcome. I tend to agree, but I think there might be a slight misinterpretation. I think the Roman Catholic Church does have a zero tolerance policy, sort of. They took care of it in their own way, and thought that was good enough.

I think that for centuries, the RCC, and especially the priesthood thereof, has almost been seen as some sort of separate society, outside the bounds of the normal world. It was almost as if the law stopped at the church door, and the internal law took over, in all but the most heinous of crimes. Furthermore, as some pointed out earlier, the expected response to sexual molestation, especially of a homosexual nature, was to keep quiet. There was a lot of shame, embarassment, and public humiliation of the victim in such cases. (I speak with some experience on the subject.)

Fortunately, all of those things are changing. Victims are much less fearful about reporting abusers, and police and law enforcement are much less likely to give deferrence to the church in such matters. As with so many other things, not everyone within the Roman Catholic Church seems to have gotten the memo that things are different now.

 

[Complexity]

Roadtoad - Thanks for your kind words. I think you do understand what I've been trying to say. That's not to say that you agree with me on everything, or even most things on some days, but that doesn't matter. It is nice to be understood by a good man.

To several others - Thanks!

154 - Post 213 was dishonest. You're a better person than that. Don't let things bring you down. I really hope you get through this ok.

 

[154]

154 - Post 213 was dishonest. You're a better person than that. Don't let things bring you down. I really hope you get through this ok.

Please elaborate.

Stop lying. You guys should just stop lying over me. I'm not that important. I don't matter. I'm not worth it.

I'm honest. I'm that simple.

And I'm fine, so what the hell are you talking about? Or is it just more lying now...lying ahead of time... getting ready.. for more lies...

 

[Brainache]

Please elaborate.

Stop lying. You guys should just stop lying over me. I'm not that important. I don't matter. I'm not worth it.

I'm honest. I'm that simple.

And I'm fine, so what the hell are you talking about? Or is it just more lying now...lying ahead of time... getting ready.. for more lies...

He is talking about your world view and how you will be personally affected when you realise that the people who you have trusted all your life have been selling you lies.

It will be a difficult journey for you, some people don't make it.

 

[154]

He is talking about your world view and how you will be personally affected when you realise that the people who you have trusted all your life have been selling you lies.

It will be a difficult journey for you, some people don't make it.

Tell me what people you think I trust.

And tell me who you trust.

Does anyone lie to you?

Do you lie?

 

[Brainache]

Tell me what people you think I trust.

I think you trust the people who taught you all about that book of fairy tales called the bible. You trust that they believe the things they say. You trust that the things they believe in are real. You trust the words of ancient mystics and distrust the methodology of science.

And tell me who you trust.

Not many. No one you would know.

Does anyone lie to you?

Probably, but not about important stuff like life, the universe and everything. The Bible lies about those things all the time and when people repeat the lies without bothering to check the facts, they are as bad as the people who invented the lies in the first place.

Do you lie?

Not once ever.