Smoking Gun for Ratzinger. That's it!

[Darat]

One of the grand fallacies I'm seeing in this is the notion that what happened is an Christian or Catholic failing. It is not.

...snip...

I have to strongly disagree with you, if you read the Ryan Report you will see that there was a rationale that arose directly from the RCC beliefs about the children being sinners (because they were born out of wedlock and so on) and therefore needed to be "punished" (what we would identify as abuse) to (presumably) save their souls. I believe that a lot of the people perpetuating the abuse identified in the Ryan Report (which went beyond looking into sexual abuse) sincerely believed that what they were doing was for the benefit of the children based on their religious beliefs.

A church (not just the RCC) that has doctrines that state there is a god that loves you but will still punish you forever is setting up a situation that can excuse the most terrible abuse being inflicted for the sake of the child's soul.

Now of course there is a matter of human behaviour - that is why I wear the signature that I do - but the RCC is also part of that behaviour.

 

[Darat]

Well, this might accelerate the drop of Roman Catholicism in Europe and the Americas (it is growing in the U.S; I guess, mostly due to the immigration from Latin America) but Roman Catholicism is growing fastest in Asia and Africa, ...snip...

And apparently the priests and the Bishops from such countries tend to be the most conservative.

 

[Darth Rotor]

And apparently the priests and the Bishops from such countries tend to be the most conservative.

The gravity of this observation can't be overstated. Unless a reform comes form the top down, at the Vatican, this cycle is likely to be exported into Asia and Africa. (An article a few days ago about similar problems in the Philippines doesn't cheer me up in the least).

DR

 

[pgwenthold]

But they might plummet dramatically, in numbers of members, in financial clout, and in prestige. It wouldn't surprise me if 20 years from now, the Catholic Church is a fraction of its current size, and I think this scandal will be a large factor in causing that. However, that's highly speculative.

Bah

People were saying the same thing when I was in college 20 years ago. The claim was that RCC couldn't survive 20 years.

 

[154]

Before much longer, not celebrating diversity will be a punishable offense.

"Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...rested-for-saying-homosexuality-is-a-sin.html

 

[Roadtoad]

"Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...rested-for-saying-homosexuality-is-a-sin.html

And your point is?

 

[Filippo Lippi]

It clearly is the end times when bigots can't take to their step-ladders* and spew their hate at passers-by.




*not their real ladders (H.Hill)

 

[Sledge]

"Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...rested-for-saying-homosexuality-is-a-sin.html

Good.

 

[Robin]

Good.

I don't agree. I think free speech is more important.

 

[Simon39759]

Ok; let's not panic here.

The guy was heckling the crowd about homosexuality.
A cop stepped it and told it to knock it down and mentioned being gay and the preacher kept on with the preaching, in effect disobeying a direct instruction and insulting a cop.
Make sense for him to be taken away.

Now; if the charges are not dropped and they actually try, let alone manage, to make it stick, then I'd have a problem with it.

Otherwise, that the guy insulted the cop for being gay rather than, the one I'd chosen, most likely illiterate, should not be of special import on the preacher's fate...

 

[Roadtoad]

Ok; let's not panic here.

The guy was heckling the crowd about homosexuality.
A cop stepped it and told it to knock it down and mentioned being gay and the preacher kept on with the preaching, in effect disobeying a direct instruction and insulting a cop.
Make sense for him to be taken away.

Now; if the charges are not dropped and they actually try, let alone manage, to make it stick, then I'd have a problem with it.

Otherwise, that the guy insulted the cop for being gay rather than, the one I'd chosen, most likely illiterate, should not be of special import on the preacher's fate...

Agreed. If you're shooting your mouth off in public, looking to incite trouble, don't be surprised if the local yokels show up and inform you that's not acceptable behavior.

Sorry, Sunshine. That's not how things are done in civilized society.

 

[Roadtoad]

And, getting this back OT:

You have to wonder what's going through the minds of the Church hierarchy when they pull this kind of crap.

 

[Robin]

Agreed. If you're shooting your mouth off in public, looking to incite trouble, don't be surprised if the local yokels show up and inform you that's not acceptable behavior.

Sorry, Sunshine. That's not how things are done in civilized society.

I would have thought that the right of nutters to get up on their soap boxes was how things were done in a civilised country.

 

[Meadmaker]

Bah

People were saying the same thing when I was in college 20 years ago. The claim was that RCC couldn't survive 20 years.

I don't think it has.

Obviously, it's still big, but it isn't the same church, and it doesn't get the same respect, that it did then. I wasn't aware of its growth in places like Africa, but in the "first world", it has a big problem. I know I still go to mass once a year, on Christmas Eve at midnight in my home town church, the only Catholic church in the town where I grew up. When I was a kid, you had to get there an hour early if you didn't want to have to stand in the back throughout the whole 90 minute service. Now, you can get there after the processional, and you'll still get a seat, and have plenty of elbow room.

I think there will be an RCC for the remainder of my lifetime, but it wouldn't suprise me if in 30 years it was viewed sort of the way Mennonites are viewed today in America. Yes, they are still there. Yes, there are communities where they are the dominant religion, but for the most part, they are viewed as a quaint relic of yesteryear.

 

[154]

How long do you suppose it will be
until left-wingnut extremist radical progressive socialist homosexual atheist militants
criminalize Christianity?

 

[Complexity]

How long do you suppose it will be
until left-wingnut extremist radical progressive socialist homosexual atheist militants
criminalize Christianity?

I don't want to criminalize xianity, I want to see it wither away to nothing.

I want to see people outgrow it.

I want to see people reject it because they want something better in their life.

I want to see people become better than xians can be.

I want to see people shed their superstitions.

 

[154]

I'm holding my breath for someone to consistently highlight all the "I"s and condemn you accordingly...

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I don't want to criminalize xianity, I want to see it wither away to nothing.

I want to see people outgrow it.

I want to see people reject it because they want something better in their life.

I want to see people become better than xians can be.

I want to see people shed their superstitions.

I don't know... if people who call themselves Christian actually did a good job of following the example laid out in the NT, they'd be pretty awesome people.

 

[Complexity]

I don't know... if people who call themselves Christian actually did a good job of following the example laid out in the NT, they'd be pretty awesome people.

But they don't and they aren't.

Also, fig trees wouldn't agree that he was all that awesome.

And they'd still be delusional and otherwise insane.

And probably very annoying.

 

[Roadtoad]

I'm holding my breath for someone to consistently highlight all the "I"s and condemn you accordingly...

Good luck with that. The "I" in that statement covers a lot of people.