9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[TSR]

Now please explain the psychology of why you loudly, albeit foolishly, defend something you know is false? It is honestly a mystery to me.

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Another knowing untruth, since you have done so here when you claimed that Mr Ellard had asserted that the Buchenwald Memorial Foundation is "a hotbed of holocaust denial."

Among others.


Oh well, more hraka from the flop-eared troll.
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[Moss]

rabbit, the problem with your translation is that the document itself says nothing about the Kremas, so your paraphrase "translation" here and on Rodoh was just wrong and misrepresents the document.
The claim is it has anything to do with the Auschwitz muffles from is the exhibition documentation, not the document itself.
Any clue why that distinction may be relevant?
And before you come up with the "then the foundation misrepresents it too!" argument: yeah, that may be, I haven't looked at the documentation yet and what they may offer as source for that.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

I am playing rope-a-dope with you too, Mr Ellard.

You have in a very short space in time claimed there was no organisation called SMERSH, said that a letter published by the Buchenwald Memorial Foundation was a forgery and watched you hilariously ignorant of German claim that I had falsely translated something.

1) There is no Russian agency called SMERSH (death to spys). I gave you the opportunity to state exactly what division or department SMERSH ("death to spys") and you ran away.

2) I never mentioned the Buchenwald Memorial Foundation ever. I simply pointed out that you mis-translated a bogus letter that offered to sell Auschwitz Krema ovens after Auschwitz was in Russian hands as I was pointing out your incompetence in reviewing historical dates. I have no interest where you got the bogus letter from as it was bogus.

3) You have made two false translations from German so far. Firstly you added skeletons to your Spanner translation (although no skeletons were in the ADJR soap making machine) and you then claimed the Topf letter stated "Krema II & III" which it clearly did not. You then went on to a "find the missing muffles" on this webforum based on your false translation of the Topf letter hoping members were not German or could not read German.

4) On the 11th of April 2010 you were claiming on the RODOH forum that "The reason why everyone says the Krema II and III (gas chambers) looked like bakeries is because they were bakeries" but by the 27th of April you were asking members on this forum "Where are the missing muffles from Krema II & III" indicating that you flip flop in your arguments or more probably that as a holcaust denier you see members at JREF as "fair game to wind up as much as possible".


You are just a run-of-the-mill holocaust denier using lies and fabrications to support your shrinking cult.

 

[9/11-investigator]

A lot of posters here were concerned here with statements made by dr. Goebbels concerning the Jews, see post #45 (already debunked in #114), #548, #576, #1360, #2256, #2270, #2285, #2289, #2306, #2309, #2326, #2347, #3039, #3346.

Here is an excellent new article that deals with the statements from Goebbels regarding the Jews as written down in his diary:

http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2010/volume_2/number_1/goebbels_on_the_jews.php

Facit: no references to a planned genocide can be deduced from this diary.

 

[VonKleist]

Here is an excellent new article that deals with the statements from Goebbels regarding the Jews as written down in his diary:

http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2010/volume_2/number_1/goebbels_on_the_jews.php

Facit: no references to a planned genocide can be deduced from this diary.

Oh 'Thomas Dalton' again:

Thomas Dalton, PhD, is the author of Debating the Holocaust: A New Look at Both Sides (2009). He is a professor of humanities at an American university.

LINK

Oh no he isn't! He's a liar. Mind you, so are you. And that is also a facit.

 

[TSR]

Here is an excellent new article that deals with the statements from Goebbels regarding the Jews as written down in his diary:

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Does Dalton also refuse to acknowledge that your heroes rounded up chilodren and babies for the sole purpose of shooting them in the head, and if not, does he also try to pretend those children deserved what they got because they were terrorizing the locals?
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[Moss]

If deportation is sometimes the “equivalent of a death sentence,” and many will “pay with their lives,” we are left wondering how, exactly, and in what numbers, they will die. I trust that there is a clear difference between (a) many dying from disease, exposure, lack of medical care, periodic shootings, etc, and (b) all dying in a complex and systematic gassing operation. There is no doubt that concentrating and deporting thousands or millions of people in wartime would lead to many deaths. But this is not genocide.

A faithful believer our Mr. Dalton is...
And maybe he should look up the definition of genocide. What "Dalton" describes as option a) is ethnic cleansing (and therefore already a crime against humanity) and the way he describes already borders on genocide.


Same goes for

“We are not very interested in what becomes of them after that.” Harsh and brutal, perhaps, but clearly far less than genocide

Sure, it's not saying anything overt, but is Mr. Dalton able to read Goebbels' mind to say "clearly far less"?

ETA: This argument becomes even more inane when you consider that we are still in 1941 at that point. The Wannseekonferenz hasn't taken place yet and Goebbels didn't participate either. The sentiment the jews should be eradicated was clearly there, read the entries "Dalton" quotes for the 13th and 14th of December. It just wasn't clear how. And the PR guy (read Goebbels) surely isn't the first guy you want to inform about how you go about slaughtering people.

 

[TSR]

Sure, it's not saying anything overt, but is Mr. Dalton able to read Goebbels' mind to say "clearly far less"?

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And it's kinda funny that "Dalton" stops reading the diary in 1941 -- ignoring, for example, December 13 1942 when Goebbels writes "At bottom, however, I believe both the English and the Americans are happy that we are exterminating the Jewish riff-raff."
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[9/11-investigator]

Oh 'Thomas Dalton' again:

Skeptic 'logic' behind this: 'well, if Hitler says that 2 + 2 = 4 then 2 + 2 cannot be 4'.

Oh no he isn't! He's a liar. Mind you, so are you. And that is also a facit.

'garethdjb' does not undertake any effort to explain why Dalton (pen name just like garethdjb) is a liar, let alone why I am.

But I have noticed before that smearing is a favorite past time of some of my transatlantic cousins.

 

[9/11-investigator]

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And it's kinda funny that "Dalton" stops reading the diary in 1941 -- ignoring, for example, December 13 1942 when Goebbels writes "At bottom, however, I believe both the English and the Americans are happy that we are exterminating the Jewish riff-raff."
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Maybe that 'TSR' can give us the German original of said quote? We can safely assume that this Nizkor one-man operation 'maxed out' his translation to make look Goebbels as bad as possible.

Or did Goebbels write is diary entries in English?

 

[VonKleist]

'garethdjb' does not undertake any effort to explain why Dalton (pen name just like garethdjb) is a liar, let alone why I am.

I had done so in post #3558, I saw no reason to repeat myself. Your most recent lie was about the contents of a Dutch magazine article.

But I have noticed before that smearing is a favorite past time of some of my transatlantic cousins.

Oh. You ARE American after all.

 

[TSR]

Maybe that 'TSR' can give us the German original of said quote? We can safely assume that this Nizkor one-man operation 'maxed out' his translation to make look Goebbels as bad as possible.

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Who said anything about Nizkor? If you believe the translation to be in error, why don't *you* show us how, instead of just sneering?

Of course, then you will *also* have to explain why "No Ordinary Time: Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt : the Home Front in World War II", Doris Kearns Goodwin (Simon & Schuster) October 1, 1995 won the Pulitzer Prize with such an egregious error in it.

Or why the Wayne State University Press allowed Monty Noam Penkower to publish "The Jews Were Expendable: Free World Diplomacy and the Holocaust" under their imprimatur under those conditions.

Because both of these refer to this passage, as translated.

Perhaps you can prevail upon David "I see you, I sue you" Irving to make up a lie for you about this quote, since he claims to have discovered the diaries to begin with -- no, wait: not even *he* can twist this one -- not even by his cherished "we can say that you've only got to change one or two words and you get a completely different meaning" as if it were perfectly normal for an historian to do so.
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[TSR]

'garethdjb' does not undertake any effort to explain why Dalton (pen name just like garethdjb) is a liar, let alone why I am.

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Because Dalton is not just a pen name, it is identity theft, since there is a *real* Thomas Dalton, who *is* a full Professor at U of AZ, and the author is neither..
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[Matthew Ellard]

Here is the link to the Nizkor website that details Goebbel's diary entries after 1941.
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/goebbels-joseph/goebbels-1948-excerpts-01.html

Amusingly, David Irving states the later Goebbel's entries are authentic. This caused some CODOH members to attack David Irving and I thought this member's quote was hilarious ( "spelling" is not a CODOH reqirement)
Irving´s mother is a Jewess. Even if that is not the case, Irving would probably still be the only revisionist who: 1. has a girlfriend/wife who calls his opinions about the Holocaust "ridicolous", 2. has a daughter who allways wears a copy of Anne Frank´s diary in order to show that she doesn´t agree with her father, 3. has said before court that the Holocaust happened since new Soviet documents reveal it,
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3793

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Whoopsie....I just incorrectly spelt "requirement" after saying CODOH members could not spell. I will hang my head in shame around the office. Hmmm....that's egg on my face.

 

[little grey rabbit]

rabbit, the problem with your translation is that the document itself says nothing about the Kremas, so your paraphrase "translation" here and on Rodoh was just wrong and misrepresents the document.
The claim is it has anything to do with the Auschwitz muffles from is the exhibition documentation, not the document itself.
Any clue why that distinction may be relevant?
And before you come up with the "then the foundation misrepresents it too!" argument: yeah, that may be, I haven't looked at the documentation yet and what they may offer as source for that.

First it is incorrect to say I supplied a translation here, I did no such thing. Mr Ellard who is assiduously digging through RODOH claimed I provided a "translation" on RODOH. Given I was not dealing with nobs on RODOH (or at least more sophisticated nobs than the nobs found here) no one there was stupid enough to take my one line sentence "translation" as a literal translation - especially as most of them have some level of german language skills. Nor do I think you would misunderstood that either.

As to the claim that I and the Buchenwald memorial foundation have misunderstood the document and that it reality it is not supposed to refer to Krema II and III ovens, then it is me, the Buchenwald memorial foundation and the entire historical community in this field. As you will not be able to find one scholar that supports your interpretation.

Incidentally someone has placed a scan of the page here
http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/10656/t/Bringing-back-the-Moose-101.html
So that you can inform yourself better.

As far as it goes in the original context I raised the letter and my infamous one line "translation" that confused our very special Mr Ellard here, it was in relation to criticism to the provenance of the document - I was arguing that there was no logical reason for such a letter to have found its way into Thereseinstadt archives and that this provides a clue as to the date of the production of the forgery - ie some time after the Topf archive was handed over to the Thuringen state archive in the 1990s.

I hope that I have been of assistance to you.

 

[little grey rabbit]

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Because Dalton is not just a pen name, it is identity theft, since there is a *real* Thomas Dalton, who *is* a full Professor at U of AZ, and the author is neither..
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There are many Thomas Daltons in the world. I do not know who "Thomas Dalton" is and if he is a professor of humanities. However, to the best of my knowledge this "Thomas Dalton" has never claimed to be the economics professor of U of AZ.

Someone did do so on his behalf, but that was just pulling the leg of the some blog writer on Holocaust controversies who is more than usually stupid. It became a bit of a sport for a while to provide fake IDs for online revisionists and then watch him idiotically write to their employers demanding these hapless innocent bystanders be sacked.

However I am fairly sure I know who did that and it wasnt "Thomas Dalton". I am also fairly sure he wouldnt have done it, if he wasn't sure he could wind up the blog writer into running off to try and confirm the identity.

 

[VonKleist]

There are many Thomas Daltons in the world. I do not know who "Thomas Dalton" is and if he is a professor of humanities. However, to the best of my knowledge this "Thomas Dalton" has never claimed to be the economics professor of U of AZ.

Someone did do so on his behalf, but that was just pulling the leg of the some blog writer on Holocaust controversies who is more than usually stupid. It became a bit of a sport for a while to provide fake IDs for online revisionists and then watch him idiotically write to their employers demanding these hapless innocent bystanders be sacked.

However I am fairly sure I know who did that and it wasnt "Thomas Dalton". I am also fairly sure he wouldnt have done it, if he wasn't sure he could wind up the blog writer into running off to try and confirm the identity.

Of course 'Thomas Dalton' didn't make any of these claims. After all, as you well know little grey rabbi, he doesn't exist. Surely it would have been easier for Michael Santomauro to get an internet PhD himself rather than go through this ridiculous, and poorly executed, subterfuge.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Of course 'Thomas Dalton' didn't make any of these claims. After all, as you well know little grey rabbi, he doesn't exist. Surely it would have been easier for Michael Santomauro to get an internet PhD himself rather than go through this ridiculous, and poorly executed, subterfuge.

As I say I really have no idea who he is. If I did know, I wouldn't tell you but I would say that I knew. However, I simply don't know. Sorry.

 

[Moss]

First it is incorrect to say I supplied a translation here, I did no such thing. Mr Ellard who is assiduously digging through RODOH claimed I provided a "translation" on RODOH. Given I was not dealing with nobs on RODOH (or at least more sophisticated nobs than the nobs found here) no one there was stupid enough to take my one line sentence "translation" as a literal translation - especially as most of them have some level of german language skills. Nor do I think you would misunderstood that either.

As to the claim that I and the Buchenwald memorial foundation have misunderstood the document and that it reality it is not supposed to refer to Krema II and III ovens, then it is me, the Buchenwald memorial foundation and the entire historical community in this field. As you will not be able to find one scholar that supports your interpretation.

Incidentally someone has placed a scan of the page here
http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/10656/t/Bringing-back-the-Moose-101.html
So that you can inform yourself better.

As far as it goes in the original context I raised the letter and my infamous one line "translation" that confused our very special Mr Ellard here, it was in relation to criticism to the provenance of the document - I was arguing that there was no logical reason for such a letter to have found its way into Thereseinstadt archives and that this provides a clue as to the date of the production of the forgery - ie some time after the Topf archive was handed over to the Thuringen state archive in the 1990s.

I hope that I have been of assistance to you.

Nice try at weaseling out again.

Basic translation "we are sending you plans to install the 30 ovens from Krema II and III at Mauthausen.

which can be read at RODOH. Try again?

And I did say that the foundation may be in error in attributing that but that I do not know because I had seen neither the documentation yet nor seen their sources. (Which they judging from the scan (thanks to the guy that calls us "spastics", which seems to indicate he is one of the run of the mill German neonazis) didn't give.) I did indicate before that I had at that moment no means of knowing whether the context you alluded to existed and neither whether it panned out. You seem to confuse a "I do not know" with a "that can't be!". Which I definitely didn't say.
It just comes back to "the document you presented as evidence of a claim actually doesn't say anything about it". That is the misrepresentation part. The work it is included in repeats the claim. But I have no means of knowing on which basis.
Interestingly the scanned page seems to refer to an order that this document is a reply to. I wonder if that document might be in the Topf und Söhne archive and THAT document may actually back up your claim.