9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[TSR]

No just the obvious reason, that this particular bulletin board doesn't archive its discussion for more than about 6 months.

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And that bulletin board would be ... ?

Just to see if anyone there (perhaps your correspondant?) will confirm your story.

Not that I don't believe you, necessarily -- just that there is no Earthly reason why I should...
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[carlitos]

Are Jewish deaths somehow far more precious and sacred than gentile deaths?

No. This is called a non-sequitur. I think that the rest of your lies, half truths and unsourced allegations have been addressed well enough since this post.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

PS. Mr Ellard, regarding SMERSH.....google is your friend before making an idiot of yourself online.

Smersh is was an anti spy organisation. (Smersh is the russian acronym for "Death to spies") It had nothing to do with holocaust investigations. Reading is your friend before making an idiot of yourself on the internet.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Did anyone notice that Whitney Harris died last week? Harris was the prosecutor who interrogated Rudolf Hoess for three days in April 1946. He discusses this in his book Tyranny on Trial: The evidence at Nuremberg"

Holocaust deniers claim that british guards kept Hoess awake for three day to force him to confess to the crimes at Auschwitz. Sadly for holocaust deniers, Harris was American and became the national director of the USA Bar association and was never a private in the British army. Facts don't really seem to bother holocaust deniers when they can make stuff up.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Smersh is was an anti spy organisation. (Smersh is the russian acronym for "Death to spies") It had nothing to do with holocaust investigations. Reading is your friend before making an idiot of yourself on the internet.

Mr Ellard juts out his jaw and says "Hit me"
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/03/carlo-mattogno-and-interrogations-of.html

In March of 1946 the Soviet counterintelligence agency SMERSH arrested four men directly responsible for the ovens and gas chambers of Auschwitz. They were engineers Kurt Pruefer, Karl Schultze, Fritz Sander and Gustav Braun, employees of "Topf und Soehne", the German firm specializing in construction of crematoria. All of them were interrogated at length. Sander soon died, and the rest were sentenced in 1948 to 25 years of labor camps. Pruefer died in 1952, Schultze and Braun were amnestied in 1955 and deported to East Germany.

Can I assume that you concede you just made an idiot of yourself?

 

[TSR]

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Funny, that PDF returns zero matches for the phrase "important components of the extermination," just to choose a distinctive combo at random.

It *does* however, in a search for "1945" state

In view of the advancing Red Army, the crematoria there had been blown up in January 1945 in an effort to conceal evidence.

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...which makes your claim even less likely to accurate.
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You have yet to actually *cite* this letter, or any experts who hold that opinion.
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Even if all you claim regarding this letter and "the experts'" opinion thereof turns out being accurate, being taken in by a forgery would not make them a "hotbed of holocaust denial" and no reasonable person would make that assumption. One would have to assume that Mr. Ellard meant that they were aware that it was a forgery and were still actively promoting the letter -- and given that you *still* have not substantiated that this letter even exists ...

But let's run with this while you rig up a citation which actually supports your claims: what is *your* explanation for the fact that these muffles were not Topf's to sell, and that they were behind "enemy" lines as of the date the letter was supposed to have been written?
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No, it would be called lying when *anyone* does it -- too bad you're the only so engaged in this thread...
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The bunny is strangely silent on these points today -- along with the address of the forum on which he supposedly had the Treblinka conversation...

How utterly ... expected.
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[Matthew Ellard]

Mr Ellard juts out his jaw and says "Hit me"
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/03/carlo-mattogno-and-interrogations-of.html


Can I assume that you concede you just made an idiot of yourself?

Nice try but you obviously cannot read. Smersh means "death to spies" and is "the counter-intelligence departments in the Soviet Army formed in late 1942" These departments of the NKVD, when still controlled by the GRU were given the popular nickname SMERSH "death to spies". The GRU did not have any department called "death to spies" as it is just a nick name. Ian Fleming used this nick name in his early books.

The arrests were by the NKVD. To say some one was arested by SMERSH is like saying they were arrested by "american anti spy teams". The actual sub divisions who did these activities are quite detailed in the KGB's Mitrokhin archives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrokhin_Archive

 

[little grey rabbit]

Nice try but you obviously cannot read. Smersh means "death to spies" and is "the counter-intelligence departments in the Soviet Army formed in late 1942" These departments of the NKVD, when still controlled by the GRU were given the popular nickname SMERSH "death to spies". The GRU did not have any department called "death to spies" as it is just a nick name. Ian Fleming used this nick name in his early books.

The arrests were by the NKVD. To say some one was arested by SMERSH is like saying they were arrested by "american anti spy teams". The actual sub divisions who did these activities are quite detailed in the KGB's Mitrokhin archives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrokhin_Archive

Thank you, Mr Ellard, for jamming your foot further down your throat
What do you make of this:
http://books.google.com.au/books?id...0CAkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=SMERSH Prufer&f=false
Gerald Fleming: Hitler and the Final Solution page 209

On 28 March 1946, by order of Lt General Selenin, chief of the USSR's main Department of SMERSH in Germany, the following decision was made: Order regarding ther termination of the investigation, as a result of the death of the accused. On 27 March, Captain Kasazev had acquainted himself with the files of Pruefer, Schultze and Sander and noted that Fritz Sander, taken into SMERSH custody on 9 March 1946, had been brought into the main administration of SMERSH in Germany on 25 March

Say those 3 little words I want to hear, Mr Ellard. Say "I was wrong."

 

[TSR]

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The bunny is still running from zir knowingly false statements...
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[Matthew Ellard]

Thank you, Mr Ellard, for jamming your foot further down your throat
What do you make of this:

Here is your quote.. "on the 28th of March 1946, by order of Lt Selenin, Chief of the USSR's main department of Smersh in Germany, the following decisions were made". from Hitler and the Final Solution, by Gerald Fleming.

There is no department called Smersh and never was. There is no Russian document that refers to any department in the NKVD called Smersh. "death to spies" The Russian General in charge of NKVD/MVD counter intelligence forces in Germany from 4/7/1945 to 22/4/1947 was actually Ivan Alexadrovich.Serov. (who went on to fame in Hungary) Pytor.W Selenin was a normal Lt General officer in the GRU ( Russian military intelligence) interviewing Germans from 17/12/1945 to 1/4/1947. This is detailed in the Mitrokhin Archives which are available to purchase. However you can check the details in Anatomie der Parteizentrale: die KPD/SED auf dem Weg zur Macht By Manfred Wilke, 1998 for details.

The "buzz term" Smersh came from a russian expression by Russian POWs who were sent to forced labour camps by Stalin and pops up in books by English people who did Russian prisoner interviews.

When google says SMERSH ended in 1946 they mean the NKGB was separated from the GRU in 1946 after briefly being renamed the NVD in March 1946. Smersh is just a collective name for anti-spy activities in Russian.

Do you think I'm wrong? Well please feel free to find me any russian, German or English document which states exactly what subdivision of the NKVD or MVD was called SMERSH "death to spies"?

I'll just wait until you can name the exact division called SMERSH shall I?

Say those 3 little words I want to hear, Mr Ellard. Say "I was wrong."

No, I'm going to say that trawling Google doesn't seem to be helping you and now you have to do some real research to back up your claim that SMERSH is a real entity and not just a buzz phrase.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Can I assume that you concede you just made an idiot of yourself?

Well it seem to me that your problems are growing....

1) If the camp was evacuated by the Germans on 17th January 1945 and captured on the 27th of January by the Russians how could Topf and Sons write a letter dated Feb 1945 selling the Krema II and III ovens?

Please explain

2) What exact subdivision or indeed any division of the NKVD was called SMERSH?

Please explain.

3) Where on earth does the following translation say anything about Krema II & III as you claim?

Neubau Krematorium (Sonderanlage).

In der Anlage übersenden wir Ihnen durch unseren Herrn Polier Koch eine Zeichnung D 61 654. Aus dieser Zeichnung wollie Sie die Hälfte der Gesamtanlage ersehen.
Das mittlere Hauptgebäude enthält zweimal 5 stück Dreimuffel-Einäscherungs-öfen, die an 2 Stück dreiröhrigen Schornsteinen angeschlossen sind. Der Mittelbau erhält nach der Aussenseite den Raum für die Aufsichtspersonen. Auf der gegenüberliegenden Seite liegt der Kohlenraum

Please explain

 

[Skeptic]

Reading is your friend before making an idiot of yourself on the internet.

Too late.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Here is your quote.. "on the 28th of March 1946, by order of Lt Selenin, Chief of the USSR's main department of Smersh in Germany, the following decisions were made". from Hitler and the Final Solution, by Gerald Fleming.

There is no department called Smersh and never was. There is no Russian document that refers to any department in the NKVD called Smersh. "death to spies" The Russian General in charge of NKVD/MVD counter intelligence forces in Germany from 4/7/1945 to 22/4/1947 was actually Ivan Alexadrovich.Serov. (who went on to fame in Hungary) Pytor.W Selenin was a normal Lt General officer in the GRU ( Russian military intelligence) interviewing Germans from 17/12/1945 to 1/4/1947. This is detailed in the Mitrokhin Archives which are available to purchase. However you can check the details in Anatomie der Parteizentrale: die KPD/SED auf dem Weg zur Macht By Manfred Wilke, 1998 for details.

The "buzz term" Smersh came from a russian expression by Russian POWs who were sent to forced labour camps by Stalin and pops up in books by English people who did Russian prisoner interviews.

When google says SMERSH ended in 1946 they mean the NKGB was separated from the GRU in 1946 after briefly being renamed the NVD in March 1946. Smersh is just a collective name for anti-spy activities in Russian.

Do you think I'm wrong? Well please feel free to find me any russian, German or English document which states exactly what subdivision of the NKVD or MVD was called SMERSH "death to spies"?

I'll just wait until you can name the exact division called SMERSH shall I?



No, I'm going to say that trawling Google doesn't seem to be helping you and now you have to do some real research to back up your claim that SMERSH is a real entity and not just a buzz phrase.

Dunno, it seems to have its own wikipedia and you will excuse me I take Gerald Fleming, author of Hitler and the Final Solution, as a greater authority than you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH

As the requirements of the war expanded and the Soviet armies began their conquest of previously occupied German territory, the complexities of counter-espionage, counter-insurgency, and occupation were sufficiently large to encourage Stalin to consolidate all of SMERSH under his direct control. On April 15, 1943, CI was again transferred to the People's Commissariats of Defense (NKO) and the Navy (NKF), becoming SMERSH within NKO. The full name of the head entity was Главное управление контрразведки СМЕРШ Народного комиссариата обороны СССР, or USSR People's Commissariat of Defense Chief Counterintelligence Directorate "SMERSH".

How much further do you intend to push this foot of yours down your throat?

 

[TSR]

How much further do you intend to push this foot of yours down your throat?

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My guess? Not as far as you will from your deliberate untruths in this thread.

What is it called when you say something you know it isn't so, bunny?
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[Matthew Ellard]

Dunno, it seems to have its own wikipedia and you will excuse me I take Gerald Fleming, author of Hitler and the Final Solution, as a greater authority than you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH

That's fine. The limit of your "research skills" is Wikipedia. (We already knew that). However you haven't answered my question. So what is the exact division or subdivision of the NKVD called SMERSH? According to Wikipedia it is the entire GRU counter intelligence division of the NKVD which is actually called the "GRU" or Glavnoye Razvedyvatel'noye Upravleniye (in Russian) andf indeed is still called the GRU.

So I'm waiting...What is the exact department? ( It doesn't exist)

How much further do you intend to push this foot of yours down your throat?

Well you haven't done anything yet. I keep catching out your fabrications and you keep avoiding the questions. Let us try again

1) If the camp was evacuated by the Germans on 17th January 1945 and captured on the 27th of January by the Russians how could Topf and Sons write a letter dated Feb 1945 selling the Krema II and III ovens?

Please explain

2) What exact subdivision or indeed any division of the NKVD was called SMERSH?

Please explain.

3) Where on earth does the following translation say anything about Krema II & III as you claim?

Neubau Krematorium (Sonderanlage).

In der Anlage übersenden wir Ihnen durch unseren Herrn Polier Koch eine Zeichnung D 61 654. Aus dieser Zeichnung wollie Sie die Hälfte der Gesamtanlage ersehen.
Das mittlere Hauptgebäude enthält zweimal 5 stück Dreimuffel-Einäscherungs-öfen, die an 2 Stück dreiröhrigen Schornsteinen angeschlossen sind. Der Mittelbau erhält nach der Aussenseite den Raum für die Aufsichtspersonen. Auf der gegenüberliegenden Seite liegt der Kohlenraum

Please explain

4) Are you a Sth Australian?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

And that bulletin board would be ... ?

http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/24...atoria-were-really-bakeries.html#reply-245649

You will see Little Grey Bunnies fantastic claim "The reason why everyone says the Krema II and III (gas chambers) looked like bakeries is because they were bakeries" in his opening bunny post.

However of more interest to JREF members may be this comment from Little Grey Bunny on the RODOH Holocaust Denial forum where he states "Besides i am getting too much entertainment playing rope-a-dope over at JREF. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172517
so they are fair game to wind up as much as possible

You can read Little Grey Rabbits "right" to fib to JREF members here http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/10626/t/Roll-Call.html?page=3

 

[little grey rabbit]

You can read Little Grey Rabbits "right" to fib to JREF members here http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/10626/t/Roll-Call.html?page=3

Oh the chutzpah of Mr Ellard saying I believe in a "right to fib". Exactly where in this quote do I say I have a "right to fib"?

Besides i am getting too much entertainment playing rope-a-dope over at JREF.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172517
I mean if they genuinely believed in Elie Wiesel I might have some sympathy for them, but the dishonest way they argue shows they clearly don't, so they are fair game to wind up as much as possible. I seriously don't understand the psychology of defending something you know is false.

I only made the post about the Krematoria-Bakeries so I could give it a Stundie nomination. I trust, if it makes the cut, Krema Denial will get Dr Terry's vote.

and Mr Ellard has the mendacious gall to say the I claim a right to fib?

Have you no shame, Mr Ellard, have you no shame?tr

I repeat: I seriously don't understand the psychology of defending something you know is false. But Mr Ellard, I believe you do, perhaps you can explain it to me?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

I repeat: I seriously don't understand the psychology of defending something you know is false. But Mr Ellard, I believe you do, perhaps you can explain it to me?

Well that's easy. You are a holocaust denier who makes up facts in support of the holocaust denial cult. Nick Terry pulled your arguments apart on the Rodoh forum so you are repeating your lies here, as you say, getting too much entertainment playing rope-a-dope over at JREF,where we are fair game to wind up as much as possible

Now that I have answered your question how are you going on my three simple questions to your fibs on this forum? You do have answers? Don't you?

May I point out how you have gone from claiming Krema II & II were "really bakeries" on that forum to "where are the missing muffles from Krem II & III" on this forum which sort of indicates your conviction to any story that assists holocaust denial, no matter what it is.

 

[little grey rabbit]

I am playing rope-a-dope with you too, Mr Ellard.

You have in a very short space in time claimed there was no organisation called SMERSH, said that a letter published by the Buchenwald Memorial Foundation was a forgery and watched you hilariously ignorant of German claim that I had falsely translated something.

On top of that you energized me into posting all the Elie Wiesel documents I have in the thread you linked to.

Now please explain the psychology of why you loudly, albeit foolishly, defend something you know is false? It is honestly a mystery to me.

 

[Arisia]

I imagine it's like trying to argue with dedicated flat-earthers, continuing to argue with them gives them a sense that they have a valid point, discontinue an argument with them and they declare victory, even though they clearly don't have the truth on their side.

Hey, bunny, think it's time to declare your victory? I know it's premature, but it's inevitable that you will so you might as well, so we can take a nice break before the next bit of hateful Holocaust denial comes along.