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Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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Mary_H said:
Yes, I do believe she innocent. I am not really that familiar with all the things her parents have said but I can't think of any reason to disbelieve them. The truth is on their side.
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OK. But if your reason for believing them is that Amanda is innocent (though personally I think they have enough to lose that they still might lie), then you can't use her parents statements as part of an argument in favour of her innocence, surely?
 
shuttlt said:
Is that why she dressed the way she did at the trial, and did cartwheels in the police station? Or were you joking?
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This is the very funniest thing Mary has quoted! This girl who said '**** happens' to her friends! She kisses her boyfriend as a body of her friend lies dead! She says of her friend 'She ******* bled to death'! she does not apologise to Patrik for his arrest! She laugh all the time in court! She have sex with man in TOILET! Social protocols! This is really funny Mary, you made me laugh at last!

Edited by LashL: 
To properly mask profanity. Please see the explanatory note to Rule 10.


She is joking right?
 
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Mary_H said:
I don't see any dissonance between Amanda's level of compassion and empathy and the behaviors you describe.
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You said she followed social protocols very well. Hence me bringing up the cartwheels, and her dress at the trial. I could dredge up other stuff too if you want, but I'm sure it's not necessary to prove the point.
 
shuttlt said:
OK. But if your reason for believing them is that Amanda is innocent (though personally I think they have enough to lose that they still might lie), then you can't use her parents statements as part of an argument in favour of her innocence, surely?
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I was using her parents' statements to judge whether or not Amanda said she had a fair trial.
 
Mary_H said:
My take on it was not that Verini was lying, but that he got a general feeling from Amanda that she was doing okay, and when he made a public statement to the press, he polished it up a bit. It happens. As I understand it, Amanda said her lawyers did a great job. It really isn't her place to evaluate whether or not the trial was fair, because she is not educated in procedures of Italian law.
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Her lawyer explained the "procedures of Italian law".

Did she not understand? Was she coerced into agreeing with her lawyer? Does she speak and not know what she is saying?

Knox is smart enough to know when she is getting a raw deal. She had nothing else to do in two years but this trial.
 
piktor said:
Her lawyer explained the "procedures of Italian law".

Did she not understand? Was she coerced into agreeing with her lawyer? Does she speak and not know what she is saying?

Knox is smart enough to know when she is getting a raw deal. She had nothing else to do in two years but this trial.
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With all due respect, most posters here aren't even qualified to say whether Amanda had a fair trial.
 
Mary_H said:
I was using her parents' statements to judge whether or not Amanda said she had a fair trial.
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True, but you'd also assumed that she's innocent. If she's guilty, but her parents are defending her anyway, they clearly aren't very trustworthy, or are the trusting dupes of their daughter. In any case, her lawyer says she had a fair trial.
 
HumanityBlues said:
With all due respect, most posters here aren't even qualified to say whether Amanda had a fair trial.
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Stuff qualified, we don't have enough information to say with certainty unless, like Mary, we choose to take some peoples word for things.
 
Mary H said:
She also expressed comapssion and empathy for the police who had interrogated her. She is a courteous, well educated young woman who follows social protocols very well.
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Yeah, this is how well she follows social protocols:


image.php



:rolleyes:
 
shuttlt said:
You said she followed social protocols very well. Hence me bringing up the cartwheels, and her dress at the trial. I could dredge up other stuff too if you want, but I'm sure it's not necessary to prove the point.
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I don't know what you're referring to as far as her attire in court, although I assume you are talking about the "All you need is love" T-shirt?

The cartwheel story, as I understand it, was a case of her doing some yoga-style stretching exercises while waiting at the police station. That does not strike me as outside the bounds of social convention. A lot of people stretch in a lot of situations that require a long wait, and Amanda is an athlete. There is even a report that an officer asked her to demonstrate what she could do, which I think is as likely as anything else.

As for the shirt, I doubt Amanda realized it would have the impact it had. We have to take into consideration the fact that she was under a public microscope and her every "misstep" was blown out of proportion.

These superficial, meaningless behaviors actually illustrate that she has priorities in terms of social protocols. That is, she understands the importance of expressing appreciation to authority figures and of behaving politely in one-on-one encounters, but discards conformity when she can. I am not a psychologist, but I would guess this type of freely-chosen flexibility is healthier than someone who rigidly adheres to a certain standard of behavior at all times.

At least no one can depict her as a sociopath, although many have tried.
 
HumanityBlues said:
With all due respect, most posters here aren't even qualified to say whether Amanda had a fair trial.
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All I can say is the lawyer for the accused took the pain of making a public statement about the trial being fair because Sen. Maria Cantwell was crying wolf and embarrassing the defense and making things difficult for Knox.

Knox concurred with her lawyer. Out of politeness or because she wanted to help her own cause. Sen. Cantwell was of no help. At all.

That's what the "fair trial" utterance was all about.
 
Mary H said:
The cartwheel story, as I understand it, was a case of her doing some yoga-style stretching exercises while waiting at the police station.
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Like pretty much everything in this case, you understand wrong. It was yoga moves, stretches, back bends AND carthweels.
 
Fulcanelli said:
Perhaps not, but Amanda's lawyer is and he said so.
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How is it her lawyer has credibility?

Just kidding, you don't have to answer that. I am alluding to shuttlt's post that "we don't have enough information to say with certainty unless, like Mary, we choose to take some peoples word for things."
 
HumanityBlues said:
Even Amanda's lawyer could be wrong. The notion of what a "fair trial" is goes beyond the context of just Italian law.
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Oh I see, anyone who says anything good about Amanda is right and anyone who says anything bad or inconvenient about her, even if they are experts on her side are wrong.
 
Mary_H said:
I don't know what you're referring to as far as her attire in court, although I assume you are talking about the "All you need is love" T-shirt?
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Yes. We could dredge out inappropriate comments if you want? I don't see the point since the only reason to mention it is your comment about he being good at following social protocols.

The cartwheel story, as I understand it, was a case of her doing some yoga-style stretching exercises while waiting at the police station. That does not strike me as outside the bounds of social convention. A lot of people stretch in a lot of situations that require a long wait, and Amanda is an athlete. There is even a report that an officer asked her to demonstrate what she could do, which I think is as likely as anything else.
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If you want we can revisit the cartwheels. You will find that having told the story a bunch of times, the version where the policeman asked Amanda to do cartwheels popped up quite late in the telling of it.

In some versions of the story she never did a cartwheel, this was a misunderstanding by the police.

In some versions of the story her legs start to hurt from having been sitting around doing her homework, so she starts doing exercises. It could be that she did have to wait a long time, but of course that is cutting into the potential time in which she might be being interrogated.

Mary_H said:
As for the shirt, I doubt Amanda realized it would have the impact it had. We have to take into consideration the fact that she was under a public microscope and her every "misstep" was blown out of proportion.
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It still isn't common in court to turn up in a t-shirt like that though. Anyway, it's a minor thing. It isn't central to any argument about her. I only mentioned it in reaction to your statements about her character. For me it is an unimportant detail.
 
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Mary_H said:
How is it her lawyer has credibility?

Just kidding, you don't have to answer that. I am alluding to shuttlt's post that "we don't have enough information to say with certainty unless, like Mary, we choose to take some peoples word for things."
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In this case we can take his word, since he is the expert working on her behalf and it is his job to say if she got an unfair trial.

But if you believe he's wrong, quick you'd better write to her family and recommend they sack him for he's clearly incompetent and doesn't know his job. In which case, we can dismiss all his defence arguments made in trial as invalid. You choose which.
 
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