What is your excuse for killing animals?

[Herzblut]

However I don't see any argument there for why discriminating between entities on irrelevant grounds like species, skin colour or astrological sign is just as good as discriminating between entities on the basis of empirically verifiable mental characteristics. Can you explain that bit to me?

What is empirically verifiable is species, skin colour et al. "Mental characteristics" cannot be verified, except for humans.

 

[Herzblut]

You really think Alex the Parrot or a dolphin does not matter more than an earthworm or a cockroach? We're just going to have to agree to differ then, since I disagree with your position and see no prospect of changing your position using reason.

You're assessing life by how far it resembles human life which is an athropocentric approach. I don't know why I should not regard this approach as "irrelevant" in your own view.

 

[tsig]

tsig:
Maybe a subtle parody? or a miscommunication?

Well hell Tsig, if you understand what point he's trying to make then explain it to the rest of us.

Kevin, in the English language the use of the symbol "?" means the sentence is a question. Asking a question means I do not understand and wish further information therefore asking me to explain what he/she meant seems to indicate to me that you do not understand English punctuation.

"In the English language, the question mark (?), also known as an interrogation point, interrogation mark, question point, query,[1] or eroteme, is a punctuation mark that replaces the Full stop at the end of an interrogative sentence"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question_mark

 

[Radrook]

Last night, it was pork chops.

Evolutionists claim that a piglike animal which masnaged to survive one of the great extinctions is our ancestor. Center cut? : )

 

[Herzblut]

Call me pessimistic but I don't think veganism will ever become an overnight sensation. If you have a modicum of faith in a market system, then you should expect consumers to send signals to producers, eventually drawing down the number of animals raised for food.

Well, looking at emerging countries like China or India, global meat consumption is most probably on the rise for several years. Because overcoming poverty normally leads people to a more meat-oriented diet. The only way to keep these people away from meat is to leave them poor, which I regard as a highly unethical approach.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Clearly you haven't read the thread, or you'd know that claim was false.



Mere assertion.



Word salad.



Mere assertion, blatant oversimplification and incorrect to boot. But feel free to eat meat if you and your children are starving to death and you have no other options, with my blessing. I'm cool with that.

However since you have a computer and an internet connection it seem unlikely you are struggling for survival. It seems much more likely that your nutritional choices involve putting bacon in your shopping trolley, or pushing it to the next aisle over to put tofu in it. That is scarcely an issue of life and death.



Well, actually yes I can and I have to if I want to consider myself a moral being.

Inherent in the judgment that A is morally better than B is the judgment that acting to bring about A is morally better than acting to bring about B.

I'm inclined to criticise anti-gay activists for basing their moral beliefs on stupid reasons, but not for having the courage of their convictions. Having the courage to go with your convictions is a good thing, if you've thought through your convictions.

No, the claim is not false, judging from the dead malnourished kids vegans have had. It is about amino acids and essential nutrition, not just starvation. Your ignorance about that makes you wrong, but keep on sticking your head in the sand if you like. This is an issue of life or death, and there are the dead kids I linked previously. It's also an issue of children reaching their potential instead of just surviving their childhood due to a vegan diet.

You're the one pushing your version of morals on the rest of us. I just don't buy it since you haven't proven your convictions are better or even "right".

 

[BenBurch]

Bratwurst last night. I hope those pigs and steers REALLY suffered. They were delicious.

 

[Herzblut]

Raising animals for food in the current fashion is a colossal waste of energy, since we often feed them grain which could be used to feed humans directly. So even if you consider animal suffering meaningless (in which case you should be campaigning against animal cruelty laws) there are still blatantly obvious efficiency gains to be had by reducing meat consumption.

If true, that would be a strong argument of course. But your case is highly dubious. First of all, nutrition is not just about energy but valency. And a pound of fish, chicken or meat is much more valuable than a pound of wheat. A society, like the Indian, focussing on vegetarian food fails to support its population properly, especially children. Half a billion children in India are malnourished, also due to culturally imposed vegetarianism. You cannot point to any single, really existing society factually profiting from widespread vegetarianism, can you?

And you know as well, that our agriculture is producing more than enough calories to feed the world. World hunger is not a matter of production, but distribution. Any product moves to where money sits, which makes poverty the prime reason for hunger. It doesn't help the fasting and poor at all, if I start eating salad instead of meat.

 

[Morrigan]

Well KL has convinced me that some cows are more aware than most vegans.

Zing!

Here's another zinger:

 

[Cain]

The only way to keep these people away from meat is to leave them poor, which I regard as a highly unethical approach.

OK, I wanna know who told. ****. Now we have to go to Plan B.

It's also an issue of children reaching their potential instead of just surviving their childhood due to a vegan diet.

Historically, in a state of nature, children have been lucky to make it into adulthood. People struggled to find enough to eat, so I don't think there's anything wrong since this passes the-wild-as-a-baseline test.

ETA: That Vegan/Carnivore picture is funny.

 

[Herzblut]

OK, I wanna know who told. ****. Now we have to go to Plan B.

I don't get it. You refuse the "more wealth, more meat" assertion? You think you can talk China into consuming less meat?

 

[Cain]

I don't get it. You refuse the "more wealth, more meat" assertion? You think you can talk China into consuming less meat?

I don't disagree with your prediction, but I also don't see its relevance. As China and India become wealthier, they're going to emit more greenhouse gases. So...?

 

[Herzblut]

I don't disagree with your prediction, but I also don't see its relevance. As China and India become wealthier, they're going to emit more greenhouse gases. So...?

You seem to say that rising veganism in western countries would draw down the number of animals raised for food, which I happen to disbelieve. Lack of meat demand here would probably reduce overall meat prices and redirect meat towards emerging countries like China and still increase meat consumption there. I don't think the market system works in a way you hope it would.

 

[Cain]

You seem to say that rising veganism in western countries would draw down the number of animals raised for food, which I happen to disbelieve. Lack of meat demand here would probably reduce overall meat prices and redirect meat towards emerging countries like China and still increase meat consumption there. I don't think the market system works in a way you hope it would.

As our previous exchange suggests, and this one confirms, the main problem is that you're not terribly bright. The original hypothetical of overnight veganism did not specify a country or region. You're changing the assumptions, which of course alters production.

 

[Herzblut]

http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/6515...sus-epic-demotivational-poster-1218659828.jpg

As our previous exchange suggests, and this one confirms, the main problem is that you're not terribly bright. The original hypothetical of overnight veganism did not specify a country or region. You're changing the assumptions, which of course alters production.

So, would rising veganism in western countries reduce the number of animals raised for food, or not?

 

[Robo Sapien]

I called China, they said they'd be willing to trade 100 lbs of rice per 1 lb of beef.

 

[Herzblut]

I called China, they said they'd be willing to trade 100 lbs of rice per 1 lb of beef.

Maybe. But China is the biggest producer of rice and meat in the world anyway.

 

[tsig]

Zing!

Here's another zinger:

[qimg]http://blog.howfastareyou.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/carnivores-are-awesome-560x418.jpg[/qimg]

The pics, They’re Grrrrreat!!


"A recognizable and distinct voice was needed for the Tony the Tiger Character. Shortly after the initial Sugar Frosted Flakes advertisements aired, McKennon was replaced by Thurl Ravenscroft, who spent the next five decades providing the characteristic deep bass voice associated with the character, notably the familiar "They’re Grrrrreat!"

 

[Robo Sapien]

Maybe. But China is the biggest producer of rice and meat in the world anyway.

The angus man, the angus! Its all about the angus.

 

[tsig]

The angus man, the angus! Its all about the angus.

Yes some posters are having Angus angst.