Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[stilicho]

Oh I don't know, because Raffaele didn't grab the bra?? Or maybe he did and no left no DNA. After all, if someone, in your scenario, can mountaineer up to a window, break-in, toss the room and not leave a shred of DNA in the process...surely one can do the same with a mere bra?

Or maybe they missed it during the investigation.

Missing something invisible to the naked eye is a lot different than the boulder-launching-ethereal-wall-walker scenario.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Why are you just pulling random insinuations out of thin air?

Because it's all they've got. Desperation.

 

[Dan O.]

You ignored the evidence the first time I posted it. You are making the claim that the cottage was sealed, presumably the entire time between when the investigators finished a few days after the body was discovered until they returned to collect the clasp.

Where is the evidence that supports that claim?
Does that evidence state what day the cottage was sealed?
Was there any official access to the cottage between when the cottage was sealed and when the investigators returned to collect the clasp?
Who was present when the cottage was unsealed in December?
Were the seals examined to insure they had not been tampered with?

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Really?

The Machine (Harry Rag) is well respected on PMF and he posts on true justice. He has repeated this lie for 2 years. He was finally corrected on PMF by a new reader. Both of the moderators let it go for 2 years. That would be Peggy and yourself.

Stop the lies.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Really?

Really. You made made the statement of fact. Don't be answering it with a question. Support it.

Or is this just another we should be adding to the list of 'Bruce assertions'? It's getting rather long, I must say.

Assert something and then support it...don't worry, we can handle the shock.

 

[Fulcanelli]

You ignored the evidence the first time I posted it. You are making the claim that the cottage was sealed, presumably the entire time between when the investigators finished a few days after the body was discovered until they returned to collect the clasp.

Where is the evidence that supports that claim?
Does that evidence state what day the cottage was sealed?
Was there any official access to the cottage between when the cottage was sealed and when the investigators returned to collect the clasp?
Who was present when the cottage was unsealed in December?
Were the seals examined to insure they had not been tampered with?

I missed that evidecence Dan O. Post it again, could you mate?

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Actually PMF stated she got a ticket. That is true.

PMF never said she was arrested.

The Machine (Harry Rag) is well respected on PMF and he posts on true justice. He has repeated this lie for 2 years. He was finally corrected on PMF by a new reader. Both of the moderators let it go for 2 years. That would be Peggy and yourself.

Stop the lies.

 

[Fulcanelli]

The Machine (Harry Rag) is well respected on PMF and he posts on true justice. He has repeated this lie for 2 years. He was finally corrected on PMF by a new reader. Both of the moderators let it go for 2 years. That would be Peggy and yourself.

Stop the lies.

Is Harry Rag the Machine? I really didn't know that. What's the inside scoop?

 

[Bruce Fischer]

I missed that evidecence Dan O. Post it again, could you mate?

Is he a twit or a mate? You called him a twit earlier. My kids talk like that. They are 9 and 12.

 

[stilicho]

You ignored the evidence the first time I posted it. You are making the claim that the cottage was sealed, presumably the entire time between when the investigators finished a few days after the body was discovered until they returned to collect the clasp.

Where is the evidence that supports that claim?
Does that evidence state what day the cottage was sealed?
Was there any official access to the cottage between when the cottage was sealed and when the investigators returned to collect the clasp?
Who was present when the cottage was unsealed in December?
Were the seals examined to insure they had not been tampered with?

Not the way it works, Dan O.

You show us a single statement of the defence teams stating that all evidence from the cottage is void--including that of RG collected in the cottage after the murder and before it was sealed.

I have a better argument for you. Why don't you instead claim that the evidence from RS's flat is void? That would be something that wouldn't make your argument look like it was simple trolling.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Is Harry Rag the Machine? I really didn't know that. What's the inside scoop?

It was stated for 2 years on both PMF and true justice. It was an outright lie. At least is was finally corrected by a new reader.

Are you actually going to deny that Harry Rag is "The Machine" ??

 

[Fulcanelli]

I know exactly who Harry Rag is...and here he is, revealed...live feed:

http://avatars.jurko.net/uploads/avatar_22036.gif

Edited by LashL: 

Removed hotlinked image. See Rule 5.

 

[stilicho]

Is he a twit or a mate? You called him a twit earlier. My kids talk like that. They are 9 and 12.

Shouldn't you be busy correcting all the mistakes on your site? Looks like two major ones have been proved wrong here already and I would guess the JREF crew is just starting.

 

[Fulcanelli]

It was stated for 2 years on both PMF and true justice. It was an outright lie. At least is was finally corrected by a new reader.

Are you actually going to deny that Harry Rag is "The Machine" ??

'What' was stated? Make yourself clear man.

 

[stilicho]

[The] cottage was sealed, presumably the entire time between when the investigators finished a few days after the body was discovered until they returned to collect the clasp.

Just noticed the subtle change in wording. Now you're ready to accept the evidence between the time of Meredith's murder and the end of the original investigation. You changed that because you know that Rudy's evidence was collected then, too.

So now you're prepared to accept as valid all the evidence excepting the bra clasp. This is heartening since that evidence points to all three convicted killers.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Shouldn't you be busy correcting all the mistakes on your site? Looks like two major ones have been proved wrong here already and I would guess the JREF crew is just starting.

2?

 

[Fiona]

But of course. The point being, even if it fell off the only way you could have a major leak is to leave the water running and walk away for awhile. Otherwise you see some water coming out from under the sink and you simply turn off the tap. The leak only leaks with trap on or off when the water is running. It is a drain pipe.

In any case the trap is irrelevant because Amanda said that Raffaele accidentally spilled the water on the floor. No mention of a broken pipe at all. If she meant that she needed the mop to clean up water leaking from a missing sink trap then I do not think she would have used the words "spilled a lot of water by accident". Unless that is one of the differences in the use of language between the uk an america. Is it?

 

[quadraginta]

Dan O. didn't postulate a velocity of 1 meter/second. I used that figure back in this post as an example to make a point about the mechanics of the rock hitting the shutter. Clearly this left you hopelessly confused. You didn't seem to understand that the figure was purely arbitrary and you even forgot who brought it up in the first place.

There is very little difference in the quality of the posts. If you're not content with being interchangeable perhaps you should try not to sound so much alike.

If you (and Dan O.) are not making specific arguments about physics, then you should phrase them less specifically. You said,

"Assume the rock hits the shutter 10 cm from the hinged side. After the rock hits, the place where the rock hit the shutter has a velocity of 1 meters/sec."
​

Please show what part of that sentence suggests the "purely arbitrary" nature of the velocity you selected.

For those of you who didn't get the point of my earlier post, let me explain. When the rock hits the shutter near the hinge, the parts of the shutter further from the hinge move away fast enough to get out of the way of the broken glass from the window.

Can you demonstrate mathematically why a glass fragment could not acquire a greater relative velocity from the rock's initial impact than some portion of the shutter from a subsequent impact by the same rock? Consider the relative masses of the three objects.

More importantly, why was there no glass from the broken window found below the window sill?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Well, actually, my question does matter. Here's why:

1) If you claim Raffaele's DNA arrived on the clasp via contamination (a la Halides), you have a few problems you need to deal with:

A) Where did the contamination originate from? Raffaele's DNA was found solely on a cigarette butt in the kitchen - a piece of evidence that was notably not left at the cottage while the clasp was. No other swab from the cottage showed Raffaele's DNA. So where did his DNA come from?

B) Raffaele's DNA was found in a (relatively) much higher concentration than Amanda's and the 2 unknown signatures. 2nd in concentration only to Meredith, who's bra it was (as we well know). This being the case, and (A) being the case, and keeping in mind that Amanda's DNA was (rightfully, as she lived there) found all over the cottage, how can one logically conclude that Raffaele's DNA arrived via the same method of contamination as Amanda's and the other 2 female unknowns?




Do I think the clasp is credible? Yes. And the reason is that contamination alone cannot explain the concentration of Raffaele's DNA on the clasp, notably that Raffaele's DNA was found in a higher concentration than any of Meredith's roommates - who's DNA we would expect to see signatures of due to shared laundry facilities/living quarters.

I'd like to see a reasoned, thought out response to this post from Chris (Halides), Bruce, Dan O, etc. These are, without a doubt, the reason why the clasp is considered to be a valid piece of evidence.

Regardless of whether the cottage was sealed, regardless of when the clasp was collected - there was no means for Raffaele's DNA to contaminate the clasp. To claim this is the case is to defy the laws of physics - and yes, I know what I'm claiming.

To believe Raffaele's DNA is due to contamination, we must believe that his DNA was somehow in Meredith's room. Since we're arguing he wasn't involved and he was, thus, never in Meredith's room, the argument necessarily requires that someone else brought the DNA in with them.

As there was only one other place in the cottage that tested positive for Raffaele's DNA, a cigarette butt in the kitchen that had been collected prior to the clasp, how did Raffaele's DNA arrive in Meredith's room?

He never entered the room during the "initial" discovery by the Postal Police.

We've established that dust is not sufficient to provide such a large concentration of a single individual's DNA - additionally, we'd expect the level of Raffaele's DNA to be on par with that of everyone else that had ever entered the room, including Inspectors, Meredith's BF's, Meredith's roommates, etc. And yet, Raffaele's DNA was found in a concentration of magnitudes greater than that of Amanda (and presumably the other 2 roommates - regardless of whether the two unknowns are the roommates are not, we can be sure that Raffaele's DNA was in a concentration higher than any of Meredith's 3 roommates).


So, if anyone would like to continue believing the contamination bit, I'd like to see a valid, rational response as to where, exactly, the DNA came from if not Raffaele himself.

 

[Alt+F4]

I'd like to see a reasoned, thought out response to this post from Chris (Halides), Bruce, Dan O, etc. These are, without a doubt, the reason why the clasp is considered to be a valid piece of evidence.

Regardless of whether the cottage was sealed, regardless of when the clasp was collected - there was no means for Raffaele's DNA to contaminate the clasp. To claim this is the case is to defy the laws of physics - and yes, I know what I'm claiming.

To believe Raffaele's DNA is due to contamination, we must believe that his DNA was somehow in Meredith's room. Since we're arguing he wasn't involved and he was, thus, never in Meredith's room, the argument necessarily requires that someone else brought the DNA in with them.

As there was only one other place in the cottage that tested positive for Raffaele's DNA, a cigarette butt in the kitchen that had been collected prior to the clasp, how did Raffaele's DNA arrive in Meredith's room?

He never entered the room during the "initial" discovery by the Postal Police.

We've established that dust is not sufficient to provide such a large concentration of a single individual's DNA - additionally, we'd expect the level of Raffaele's DNA to be on par with that of everyone else that had ever entered the room, including Inspectors, Meredith's BF's, Meredith's roommates, etc. And yet, Raffaele's DNA was found in a concentration of magnitudes greater than that of Amanda (and presumably the other 2 roommates - regardless of whether the two unknowns are the roommates are not, we can be sure that Raffaele's DNA was in a concentration higher than any of Meredith's 3 roommates).


So, if anyone would like to continue believing the contamination bit, I'd like to see a valid, rational response as to where, exactly, the DNA came from if not Raffaele himself.

Good points. When the bra clasp was collected 47 days after the initial search it was found in Meredith's bedroom, correct?