Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[tsig]

Have you reviewed the photos of the rock? It is not a normal place to "plant" a rock. The rock clearly knocked over the bag and came to a rest where it was photographed.

I didn't know there were rules about planting a rock.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Can anyone answer my questions regarding the "Rudy-through-the-window" scenario?

1) How was the wall scaled?

2) How did Rudy get through the window without knocking glass to the ground?

3) How did Rudy manage to unlatch the window through the hole in the glass while hanging by his fingertips - all without cutting himself, nor knocking glass to the ground?

4) Where is the evidence of Rudy's presence in Filomena's room? It's in (nearly) every other room of the cottage - most definitely in every room he visited (bathroom, hallway, Meredith's room)...and yet it's not in Filomena's room. According to Halides, DNA is quite mobile and a mere bit of dust from touching the windowsill could therefore easily contaminate whatever parts of Filomena's room were tested...and yet no trace?




BTW, Fulcanelli posted the translated window/staged break-in part of the Massei report a few pages ago - at least, I seem to recall reading it and seeing where these exact questions were raised by the Judges and the only scenario that fit all the evidence was that the break-in was staged. I would like to point out that the Judges noted that the garden had indeed been inspected for glass, and none was found.

 

[tsig]

You are really losing it. You need to take a break and gather your thoughts.

I have never collaborated with him either.

How are your postings here helping Amanda?

 

[Amazer]

Have you reviewed the photos of the rock? It is not a normal place to "plant" a rock. The rock clearly knocked over the bag and came to a rest where it was photographed.

Yes, i've reviewed the pictures. With a great deal of attention I might add.

And my conclusions remain the same. The most likely location that allows the rock to damage the inner shutter to the extend it did, does not allow the rock to reach the black paper bag. The most likely location that would allow the rock to land in the black paper bag does not allow the type of damage we see on the inside shutter.

(Keep in mind that the above is just my particular objection to the scenario that you have proposed. As you well know there are more problems, brought up by others, that you need to address as well.)

So you you are left with a nearly impossible situation if you really want to push the idea that the rock was thrown from outside. It's up to you come up with scenario that fits the evidence and that's based on reality, on how stuff works in the real world.

The prosecution clearly did this to the Judges satisfaction in the first trial and so far i've seen nothing that would suggest that they cannot do it again during the appeal.

 

[Amazer]

Can anyone answer my questions regarding the "Rudy-through-the-window" scenario?

1) How was the wall scaled?

2) How did Rudy get through the window without knocking glass to the ground?

3) How did Rudy manage to unlatch the window through the hole in the glass while hanging by his fingertips - all without cutting himself, nor knocking glass to the ground?

4) Where is the evidence of Rudy's presence in Filomena's room? It's in (nearly) every other room of the cottage - most definitely in every room he visited (bathroom, hallway, Meredith's room)...and yet it's not in Filomena's room. According to Halides, DNA is quite mobile and a mere bit of dust from touching the windowsill could therefore easily contaminate whatever parts of Filomena's room were tested...and yet no trace?




BTW, Fulcanelli posted the translated window/staged break-in part of the Massei report a few pages ago - at least, I seem to recall reading it and seeing where these exact questions were raised by the Judges and the only scenario that fit all the evidence was that the break-in was staged. I would like to point out that the Judges noted that the garden had indeed been inspected for glass, and none was found.

But didn't you know, the Judge is part of the conspiracy too! So you really can't trust what he says.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

But didn't you know, the Judge is part of the conspiracy too! So you really can't trust what he says.

Well, I did kind of figure the Judge was "guilter"...but I wasn't aware that he was so instrumental to the conspiracy.


Free Rudy!

ETA: After all, DNA evidence from the toilet could have been left earlier that day/week/year when he visited his friends in the cottage. And those footprints of his? Maybe they were left when he spilled his juice and walked through it to get a mop.

 

[Amazer]

Well, I did kind of figure the Judge was "guilter"...but I wasn't aware that he was so instrumental to the conspiracy.

What can I say... it could be that he took orders from higher up the food-chain. We can only tell if that's the case if this appeal doesn't end well for Amanda. That will be the proof that this conspiracy is even bigger then originally thought.

 

[shuttlt]

Just for the record: I don't think a pissing match is getting this thread anywhere. Sniping at each other is both unbecoming and exceedingly pointless. Thank you.

I just wanted to second this. There are other places where we can work out theories in isolation from people like Bruce, or tear strips out of the enemy. I 'm all for pointing out problems with his evidence, his thinking, and his approach.... but even taking all of that into account I think this thread benifits from having him here.

 

[Kermit]

Gone the way of the Dodo bird

Filomena's window is in the shadows and mostly hidden from view ....

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You're right, Kestrel, the window is hidden from view.

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....The nearest street light shines on the other side of the cottage....

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You're right, Kestrel, there are no streetlights near Filomena's window (which remains in darkness). All lights and eyes are focussed on the other side of the cottage, which is where the nearest streetlights are, right?

In fact (seriously) there are streetlamps to the right of onlookers (and the lights continue off to the right into the distance):

And there are streetlamps to the left:

In fact, between the round streetlamps on the upper deck of the carpark and the regular streetlamps there is an abundance of light:

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....The balcony is in full view of the road and well lit at night.

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You're right, Kestrel, any driver on that country lane will have lots of time to look through the grey blur of the iron railing, and focus in on the brief glimpses of burglars on the balcony, under that excellent, long-distance illumination.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsbq7T8Tn4M

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I think that the "obvious-intrusion-route-is-Filomena's-window" argument has gone the way of the "girls-share-bras" argument, along with the "dust-borne-human-profiling-quality-DNA" argument, the "Pink-Hobbit-Foot" argument, the "perfect match" argument and the Dodo Bird.

 

[Matthew Best]

There are other places where we can work out theories in isolation from people like Bruce, or tear strips out of the enemy.

I think this attitude is part of the problem.

 

[Moss]

I'm having a bit of hard time to actually picture the posture of someone that tries to open that window from the ledge. I'd expect the glass to be be removed further up to provide a better working space to actually open the latch. Stooping or kneeling down on the ledge might be possible, but with the glass that still was there it seems like an invitation to get your legs/knees cut up. Doing it while dangling from the ledge seems a rather precarious alternative, because your hand would likely end up on the glass when you try to lift up enough to reach the latch.
It's also curious to me that none of the fragments of on the ledge seem to have fragmented further from pressure put on them.
Sorry if I reiterate that part, it keeps bugging me.

I've also been looking if there is another bigger/less cropped version of http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/library/WindowLawyerScaling.jpg around. I seem to recall there is one but have been unable to locate it.

 

[shuttlt]

Well, I did kind of figure the Judge was "guilter"...but I wasn't aware that he was so instrumental to the conspiracy.

If you take the view that there is no evidence against Amanda and Raffaele that could convince a rational person that they are guilty, then all the various judges involved in the case who at each stage thought there was enough evidence to proceed, and indeed to convinct, must either have been irrational or dishonest. There are of course other pro-Amanda positions that acknowledge that there is evidence against her and Raffaele and that the case is complicated.

 

[RoseMontague]

I think this attitude is part of the problem.

I don't believe he meant "enemy" in a literal sense. More like a debate opponent. He did say that Bruce being here was a good thing.

There is a tribal nature to the discussion here and elsewhere. A few have drawn lines in the sand and others want to cross those lines to get the full picture. I think shuttlt has strong opinions about the case but is not inflexible. I am glad that bloggers on the "innocent" side of things like Halkides and Bruce are willing to come here and get grilled. They also provide valuable information as far as I am concerned. It also shows that they are confident enough in their opinion to defend that position.

Has Ray Turner or Mark Waterbury ever posted here? Mark had an interesting article speculating on Rudy possibly being a police informant that got little attention mainly because he was not here when we listed one quote and pretty much dissed his article because of that. Bruce seemed to like the article but did not want to discuss it yet and I thought it was well written but I am not prepared to defend his position. So we miss out from possibly getting the full picture on this issue just because there is not one here that wants to take the verbal abuse of supporting it. Not being able to comment at Ray's or Mark's website is a related issue as well. Why not?

 

[RoseMontague]

I'm having a bit of hard time to actually picture the posture of someone that tries to open that window from the ledge. I'd expect the glass to be be removed further up to provide a better working space to actually open the latch. Stooping or kneeling down on the ledge might be possible, but with the glass that still was there it seems like an invitation to get your legs/knees cut up. Doing it while dangling from the ledge seems a rather precarious alternative, because your hand would likely end up on the glass when you try to lift up enough to reach the latch.
It's also curious to me that none of the fragments of on the ledge seem to have fragmented further from pressure put on them.
Sorry if I reiterate that part, it keeps bugging me.

I've also been looking if there is another bigger/less cropped version of http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/library/WindowLawyerScaling.jpg around. I seem to recall there is one but have been unable to locate it.

I think you get a better idea looking at the photo Bruce provided by looking at the windows next to the actual one supposedly scaled to get a better perspective. In my opinion, Rudy would have to be able to do a two-handed chin up and hold it one-handed for long enough to unlatch the window. A rock climber would be proud to accomplish a move like this one. I don't see stooping on the ledge as a possibility.

 

[shuttlt]

RoseMontague,

You are right, I certainly don't regard anybody as "the enemy". I do think some people are profoundly wrong in their arguments and approach. This is really independent of Amanda and Raffaele's innocence or guilt. I think they're probably guilty, but it's not really the aspect of the case that interests me.

 

[Kermit]

In my opinion, Rudy would have to be able to do a two-handed chin up and hold it one-handed for long enough to unlatch the window. A rock climber would be proud to accomplish a move like this one. I don't see stooping on the ledge as a possibility.

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I would agree with that requirement. I would also add (my opinion / observation), that there is no real handhold on the lip of the window sill, it would have to be a pinch grip. The inset / recessed wooden window frame with the broken glass pane wouldn't help much in this instance.

I should add that the opening latch for the double window is half way up the inside of the opposite (unbroken) window panel.

 

[Dan O.]

I'm having a bit of hard time to actually picture the posture of someone that tries to open that window from the ledge. I'd expect the glass to be be removed further up to provide a better working space to actually open the latch. Stooping or kneeling down on the ledge might be possible, but with the glass that still was there it seems like an invitation to get your legs/knees cut up. Doing it while dangling from the ledge seems a rather precarious alternative, because your hand would likely end up on the glass when you try to lift up enough to reach the latch.

That more glass wasn't broken out is evidence that whoever entered through that window could reach the latch. It wouldn't be that difficult of a task for someone taller than normal like a basketball player to reach in through that large hole with their right arm, bend at the elbow to reach back to the latch. The average short guy trying to stage a break-in would probably think as you do and remove more of the glass.

 

[shuttlt]

Has Ray Turner or Mark Waterbury ever posted here? Mark had an interesting article speculating on Rudy possibly being a police informant that got little attention mainly because he was not here when we listed one quote and pretty much dissed his article because of that. Bruce seemed to like the article but did not want to discuss it yet and I thought it was well written but I am not prepared to defend his position. So we miss out from possibly getting the full picture on this issue just because there is not one here that wants to take the verbal abuse of supporting it. Not being able to comment at Ray's or Mark's website is a related issue as well. Why not?

I am not aware of them posting here. I've exchanged a few emails with Dr Waterbury though. He seemed nice enough, in a busy sort of way. As for debating the recent Dr Waterbury article, it's a pity you don't feel able to. I'd be interested to see somebody defend it. Perhaps if we all agreed a no-lynching-people-even-if-we-think-they-are-conspiracy-theorists pact?

 

[Kestrel]

Why would a burglar enter the cottage via Filomena's window?

View of the cottage at night. Note that most of the light is coming from the side away from Filomena's window.


Google street view showing the view of the balcony from the road.

Google street view of Filomena's window. Note that this is looking backwards from the Google van. The view for approaching traffic is from the other side of the road and blocked more by the tree.

 

[shuttlt]

How tall is Rudy?