Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[christianahannah]

I have been looking at the photos of the glass breakage on Bruce Fisher's site and have a scenario to share. In my scenario I am making quite a few assumptions based on what I can see well (and what I can't see well). Please correct me if any of my assumptions are in error or my scenario is faulty.

The window appears to be made up of white wooden solid shutters covering the glass from the inside and green wooden slatted shutters on the outside. When facing the window (inside the room) there appears to be a long white metal pole on the right shutter which I assume locks together both sections of the inside shutter/window. (I am unclear as to which shutters were unable to be closed fully - the inside or outside shutters.)

It looks as if there is no glass shards (or very little) on the opposite side of the broken window. The window sill/ledge appears to be rather wide - wide enough for a thin person to sit (or semi-sit/lean) on it from the inside.

If I were to stage a break-in of this window from the inside I would:

1. Make sure the green shutters remained shut so no one could observe what I was doing and to minimize the sound of glass breakage;

2. Open both sides of the window. While sitting on the side of the sill furthest from the window I want to break, I would hold that window frame securely in my left hand and smash the window with the rock in my right hand (the opposite window would be smashed if I am left-handed);

3. To minimize the sound of glass breakage (in addition to having the green shutters closed) I would wrap the rock in some article of clothing and also have clothing nearby under the window to minimize the sound of glass dropping to the floor. My sitting on the sill or being to the left of the broken window would keep much of the broken glass from being deposited on that part of the sill.

The closer to the sill the window is when you break it the more it would simulate the window being broken from the outside.

I am not sure if you can picture the image I am trying to portray or if it is even possible when physics come into play. I'm sure there are many faults with my scenario but I am a good sport and can take the criticism.

 

[RoseMontague]

Originally Posted by Bruce Fisher
Fulcanelli, how do you explain the final resting place of the rock?



This is one of the main points that, to me, doesn't add up. Supposedly RS and AK went through all this strategic planning of breaking the window from the inside, one throwing the rock while another held a blanket underneath to catch the falling glass, then spreading the falling glass in a trail along the floor, but didn't bother to place the rock in plain sight. I can see how the rock would have ended up in the bag whether thrown from the inside or outside. But, it seems odd, that if they were so careful about placing the glass strategically on the floor, that they then neglected the rock and left it in the bag. The rock being in the bag seems much more characteristic of someone who broke in and didn't care where the rock was left or whether it would be found.

I also find it hard to believe that either one threw a rock from the inside, while the other held a towel/blanket underneath the window to catch the glass. Not only would you risk the glass exploding in your face (as I've said before), but you also risk the rock smacking you in the face.

Also, were Amanda and Raffaele's clothes and shoes tested for glass fragments? Is it not true that LE suspected the fake break-in from the moment they saw the room? It's likely that had they thrown the rock from inside the room that they would have some glass "dusting" on their clothes, or the bottom of their shoes from stepping on it. Also, if the majority of the glass flew into the room from the rock being thrown from the outside, then it's conceivable that a small amount of glass could have flown a good distance away from the cottage. What was the parameter of the outside of the cottage that was checked for glass fragments? Did they only check directly underneath the window?

Some good questions here. I don't believe it was strategic planning on their part, more like being in a rush and not thinking things out. I don't think they held a towel underneath it to catch the glass, they may have placed one there, however. I don't know the parameters of the search of the ground below but would love to see it as it does appear a search was made for the glass. If I recall the investigator that Amanda showed the room to prior to the "finding" of the body, immediately suspected something when he saw the condition of the room and the glass on top of the clothes and just part of the sill but I don't know if their clothes were searched. However, many scenarios have the staged break in having taken place before arriving back there in the morning, giving them time to go back and change clothes (and shower for the 3rd or 4th time).

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Ahhh, suddenly you know what clicks are.

Once again, sarcasm with no substance.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Have you reviewed the photos of the rock? It is not a normal place to "plant" a rock. The rock clearly knocked over the bag and came to a rest where it was photographed.

Sorry...what is a 'normal' place to plant a rock...in your extensive experience of cases where rocks were planted?

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Fulcanelli wrote on PMF(well, Michael wrote on PMF)

"Bruce is giving it the old 'I can't reveal my sources' rubbish, but my guess is it's from Charlie Wilkes. Wilkes has claimed to have all the spheron data and all the photographs from the crime scene. I also strongly suspect the hand of Chris Mellas. Of course, I'm sure it's all met with Marriot's approval."

You give Marriot an awful lot of credit. I have never met him. You really need to get your facts straight on this. Marriot has nothing at all to do with the internet support that Amanda Knox receives.

The question should only be - Are the photos authentic? The answer is yes.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Once again, sarcasm with no substance.

Hardly. In a previous post you didn't know what clicks were....or pretended not to. I was pointing that out. How is that sarcasm?

 

[RoseMontague]

I have been looking at the photos of the glass breakage on Bruce Fisher's site and have a scenario to share. In my scenario I am making quite a few assumptions based on what I can see well (and what I can't see well). Please correct me if any of my assumptions are in error or my scenario is faulty.

The window appears to be made up of white wooden solid shutters covering the glass from the inside and green wooden slatted shutters on the outside. When facing the window (inside the room) there appears to be a long white metal pole on the right shutter which I assume locks together both sections of the inside shutter/window. (I am unclear as to which shutters were unable to be closed fully - the inside or outside shutters.)

It looks as if there is no glass shards (or very little) on the opposite side of the broken window. The window sill/ledge appears to be rather wide - wide enough for a thin person to sit (or semi-sit/lean) on it from the inside.

If I were to stage a break-in of this window from the inside I would:

1. Make sure the green shutters remained shut so no one could observe what I was doing and to minimize the sound of glass breakage;

2. Open both sides of the window. While sitting on the side of the sill furthest from the window I want to break, I would hold that window frame securely in my left hand and smash the window with the rock in my right hand (the opposite window would be smashed if I am left-handed);

3. To minimize the sound of glass breakage (in addition to having the green shutters closed) I would wrap the rock in some article of clothing and also have clothing nearby under the window to minimize the sound of glass dropping to the floor. My sitting on the sill or being to the left of the broken window would keep much of the broken glass from being deposited on that part of the sill.

The closer to the sill the window is when you break it the more it would simulate the window being broken from the outside.

I am not sure if you can picture the image I am trying to portray or if it is even possible when physics come into play. I'm sure there are many faults with my scenario but I am a good sport and can take the criticism.

Seems like a reasonable scenario to me. Just about any scenario without Rudy going through that window seems to make more sense. Whoever did it that way would be covered in glass as a result of being so close.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Sorry...what is a 'normal' place to plant a rock...in your extensive experience of cases where rocks were planted?

You have a way of completely ignoring logic.

 

[Fulcanelli]

You give Marriot an awful lot of credit. I have never met him.

That's the beauty of the Internet...we never need to 'meet' anybody, yet we can collaborate all the same

 

[Fulcanelli]

You have a way of completely ignoring logic.

You'd better lay the logic out for us then Bruce, since we all seem to be missing it.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Stilicho wrote on PMF -

"He left the JREF for a day or two swearing never to return. Then he returned to explain that he could provide information but no sources. That's all right--for now. Yes, we'll look at all his information and then we'll question the sources.

Since his return, he's posted about 15 times about how he cannot post there any longer and arrived with other baseless assertions about the police not investigating the ground beneath Filomena's window. It's an endless merry-go-round with this guy. He told us that AK & RS were not noshing on pizza when they were supposed to be either at the Questura or the vigil on 05 NOV 2007. Then, after three pages of bickering, he said they actually were eating when they had been thought to be attending the vigil.

He seems to be a very confused guy."

You sure do know how to pass around complete misinformation. "swearing never to return"
When did I ever say that? I also stated that I provide 99% of my sources. The source of the photographs is private. That's it. Unless you want to make the statement that the photographs are not authentic then I don't think this is an issue.

I never said anything that you mention about the vigil. This PMF crowd really has no credibility left.

 

[Moss]

Just for the record: I don't think a pissing match is getting this thread anywhere. Sniping at each other is both unbecoming and exceedingly pointless. Thank you.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

That's the beauty of the Internet...we never need to 'meet' anybody, yet we can collaborate all the same

You are really losing it. You need to take a break and gather your thoughts.

I have never collaborated with him either.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for rule 12.

 

[stilicho]

Seems like a reasonable scenario to me. Just about any scenario without Rudy going through that window seems to make more sense. Whoever did it that way would be covered in glass as a result of being so close.

That's the essence of the whole problem of the staged break-in.

Investigators immediately suspected something was wrong with the 'burglary' and proceeded to eliminate that possibility through standard police work. I cannot wait now for the final translation of the motivations report since I am aware this is discussed there.

Bruce, Kestrel and Dan O would have us believe that there are no standard police procedures for investigating break-ins to determine if they were staged or not. I am rather certain the insurance industry would be dismayed to hear about this.

 

[Fulcanelli]

You are really losing it. You need to take a break and gather your thoughts.

I have never collaborated with him either.

Who 'did' you collaborate with? The case file pictures didn't just fall down your chimney.

 

[stilicho]

Stilicho wrote on PMF -

"He left the JREF for a day or two swearing never to return. Then he returned to explain that he could provide information but no sources. That's all right--for now. Yes, we'll look at all his information and then we'll question the sources.

Since his return, he's posted about 15 times about how he cannot post there any longer and arrived with other baseless assertions about the police not investigating the ground beneath Filomena's window. It's an endless merry-go-round with this guy. He told us that AK & RS were not noshing on pizza when they were supposed to be either at the Questura or the vigil on 05 NOV 2007. Then, after three pages of bickering, he said they actually were eating when they had been thought to be attending the vigil.

He seems to be a very confused guy."

You sure do know how to pass around complete misinformation. "swearing never to return"
When did I ever say that? I also stated that I provide 99% of my sources. The source of the photographs is private. That's it. Unless you want to make the statement that the photographs are not authentic then I don't think this is an issue.

I never said anything that you mention about the vigil. This PMF crowd really has no credibility left.

"I do not see any purpose for me to continue the conversation on jref."

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5850852&postcount=7688

Sounds like you left to me.

As for the pizza, the Questura, and the vigil on 05 NOV 2007, we aren't biting on that any longer. You drew out the thread for three pages and then essentially admitted you were mistaken.

Now where are all those Spheron-VR images we've been promised? Anything else you have that could be useful for our discussion?

 

[Jungle Jim]

Just for the record: I don't think a pissing match is getting this thread anywhere. Sniping at each other is both unbecoming and exceedingly pointless. Thank you.

I'd like to add tedious and boring.

 

[Moss]

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for response to modded post.

 

[tsig]

Why did you break a window? I wasted three pieces of perfectly good glass in my garage and I had one notable piece of glass come back at me in three tries.

The only way to know what was on the ground the morning after the murder is to see high resolution close up photographs of the ground. Nothing was presented in court.

So no pictures or it didn't happen. Right.