How to deal with Pentecostals?

I have not heard this before. Do you have data to back that up? I'd be curious to see it.
Pentecostal are infamous for their spread among the poor and many 3rd world nations. Many prior catholic bastions in Latin America and Africa are now converting to Pentecostalism.
 
Annoyance is rather subjective, though. No matter what you say, someone is sure to be at least annoyed by it.

It depends who is in the room.

Yes, whatever you say, someone, somewhere is sure to be annoyed by it. However, that is a function of time and space. If you are in a pentacostal church on a Sunday morning, you won't find too many people annoyed by penacostal ranting. If you are in a bar on a Friday night, you will find a lot more. So if you restrict the domain properly, then, NO, it is not the case that someone is sure to be annoyed.

The key is to recognize the annoyance function and say what you will in the presence of people who aren't annoyed, instead of saying it where people are annoyed.

The problem with the current situation is that the person does not have a grasp of correct domain, and is incorrectly assuming he is in a place where the annoyance is minimal. Being new to the pentacostal scene, he does not have the calibration. Moreover, given the topic, most people are too kind to provide the necessary feedback, and he is incorrectly interpreting the lack of return on his ranting as implicit approval (assuming "no answer" to the functional input constitutes "affirmative" response).

What he needs is someone to tell him to shut up because he is annoying, so that he can learn where are the appropriate places where he can say what he is saying without being annoying (get real feedback on his annoyance function)
 
Because they are annoying.

Given the question of who should shut up,

1) annoying person
2) not annoying person,

why is it even a question?
Because:

1. Some people enjoy what you find annoying, and may even be annoyed at what you say.

2. If everyone who was annoying to someone else was forced to shut up, the world would soon be filled with silent people.

3. Earplugs.

4. This thread annoys me. By your reasoning, it should be locked and deleted.
 
Because:

1. Some people enjoy what you find annoying, and may even be annoyed at what you say.

Fine, let them find a place to enjoy it where I am not, and a place where such behavior is going to be less likely to annoy people. Like at church on Sunday morning.
 
Pentecostal are infamous for their spread among the poor and many 3rd world nations. Many prior catholic bastions in Latin America and Africa are now converting to Pentecostalism.

Thanks! I also found this:

Economically, evangelical Pentecostals tend to earn lower incomes and have less education compared with the public overall and with other evangelicals. Nearly half of evangelical Pentecostals (45%) report annual household incomes of less than $30,000, and 27% say they have attained less than a high school education. Among evangelicals overall, the comparable figures are 34% and 16%. Members of black Pentecostal churches also tend to earn lower incomes and to have less education compared with the public overall.
from http://pewresearch.org/pubs/949/palin-nomination-pentecostalism

One thing I have found is that it is better to avoid this type of person, if you don't share their views, than to to try to reason. What I've found is that most often the pentecostal Christian is not going to take your reasonable arguments to heart but instead they are going to be feeling sorry for you and trying to come up with another angle to hopefully reach you and save your soul. The biblical facts and anything else you might have to say just go right in one ear and out the other.

I met a young man a few months ago who was a Pentecostal evangelical Christian, probably in his late teens, who sat down next to me at one of my son's after-school activities. I happened to be reading a book on science, and this young man explained to me that he was "on fire for the lord." (sigh) He asked me what my book was about and when I told him, he said, "Oh, I'm not a science type. I'm a faith type." :( Isn't that sad? I told him, as I do my own kids, that if he doesn't develop an interest in critical thinking and learn as much as he can about science and the way the world works, anyone can come along and tell him anything and he may be gullible enough to believe it. But nothing I said made any difference. What a travesty... to be a teenager and already convinced that you aren't a "science type."

As far as reasoning, he would ask me a question, "Why don't you believe the Bible is the word of God?" and I would point out that the Old Testament God is not a very nice character, etc., and I would realize that he was not really listening, just thinking of the next question he could ask me to give him a chance to quote more scripture and convert me. That's when I realized two things: First, that he is likely going to go and repeat what I've said to his youth pastor who will give him some evangelically correct "rebuttals," and second that he was never once swayed toward criticism of his own views, but instead was looking critically at ME, as if I was a poor soul who needed saving.
 
I happened to be reading a book on science, and this young man explained to me that he was "on fire for the lord." (sigh) He asked me what my book was about and when I told him, he said, "Oh, I'm not a science type. I'm a faith type." :( Isn't that sad? )
Yes. :(

He seems to have chosen the Spy Vs Spy view of life.
 
...this young man explained to me that he was "on fire for the lord."

You should have said "I'll go get a fire extinguisher."

Whenever some fundy starts jabbering at me about how devout they are, I usually bring up Luke 14:33 and say "Can I assume then that you've given away all your possessions?" Or ask them if they can drink poison and cure the sick just by touching them. [Mark 16:17-18] If they can't, then why not? Jesus said they should be able to if they believe. Either they're not really a believer or Jesus lied. I like to get them on the defensive about their own religion.

Steve S
 
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he was never once swayed toward criticism of his own views, but instead was looking critically at ME, as if I was a poor soul who needed saving.

I used to take a similar road, but it is hard to be the one doing the converting. Even when you have a young man who is so taken by the word that he doesn't understand the value of science. Now, I take a more Socratic approach and just let them talk to me and ask pointed short questions. Even ask them to explain the wackier parts in more detail. It is less work and it can be effective for them to hear the craziness out loud in their own voice.

And if they ask for my input I just smile and say something along the lines of "you seem to have enough faith for the both of us."
 
One fundie didn't seem to like it at all when she could not refute my "God Hates Amputees" arguments. After all, if faith healers like Benny Hinn can cure 'invisible' ailments like migraines and cancers, then why can't they ever restore a missing limb or eye, or even cure baldness?
 
One fundie didn't seem to like it at all when she could not refute my "God Hates Amputees" arguments. After all, if faith healers like Benny Hinn can cure 'invisible' ailments like migraines and cancers, then why can't they ever restore a missing limb or eye, or even cure baldness?

This is such a good point to make. There is also a great web site by the same name. If they've come up with a rebuttal for this one, I haven't heard it yet.
 
I would have nothing to do with them.

There are so many other people that I'd rather know.

Don't let fear of your relative keep you in the closet.
 
That's called "the zeal of the new converts". It is common with absolutely every single denomination of absolutely every single religion the World over.

New converts need to convince themselves they have made the right choice, and to prove their sincerity/zeal to their new pastor and community, and what better way than to openly and noisily reject their former faith/religion/community and to try to bring as many people as possible to their new one ?


I agree this is a common phenomenon with any recent conversion. In college when you had a lot of religion switching, even friends of mine who joined religions you'd consider pretty benign, like Ba'hai or Buddhism, who really got on the "trying to convert everyone I know" kick.
 
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Regardless of your opinion on his beliefs, he has a right to them, as you do to yours. If he's not hurting anyone (and is not personally bothering you), I think you should mind your own business.
Maybe we should just close down the JREF. Woo believers have a right to their opinions, they aren't hurting anyone. We should mind our own business.


How do you know there is no harm being done here?
and
Why should we not address irrational thinking on the basis it might make a difference in society or in an individual's life?

That doesn't mean I'm suggesting one should intervene in every situation. Sometimes there is nothing likely to be gained and harm may be done like hurting a family relationship or a friendship. But the argument, "to each his/her own beliefs," is a weak argument.
 
Anyone know of any good recipes for pentacostals?

I haven't figured out how to cook up all of the parts yet.
 
One fundie didn't seem to like it at all when she could not refute my "God Hates Amputees" arguments. After all, if faith healers like Benny Hinn can cure 'invisible' ailments like migraines and cancers, then why can't they ever restore a missing limb or eye, or even cure baldness?

God doesn't cure baldness he sends bears to rip apart those who make fun of it.
 
This is such a good point to make. There is also a great web site by the same name. If they've come up with a rebuttal for this one, I haven't heard it yet.

[Fundy response]

1)God works in mysterious ways.

2)Ours is not to wonder why.

3)God has his reasons.


[/Fundy response]


Steve S
 
God doesn't cure baldness he sends bears to rip apart those who make fun of it.

God hates teasing bald guys so much he sends a bunch of bears after a group of kids, but people can commit murder and rape and no bears. No lightning strikes, not even a divine slap on the hand. Yeah, that makes sense.

I guess God does work in mysterious ways...
 

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