Warranty hard drive replacement: Secure to ship back old drive?

[Olowkow]

My new computer is 6 months old. It took me about 3 months to get it where I want it. Got up last Thursday, and the hard drive was dead. All my secure info is on the hard drive to be replaced. I have backups. Warranty is replacing the drive.

But........

HP wants the old (bad) hard drive shipped back to them. I have all my passwords, and some proprietary designs on the old drive. It spins, but the head is heard to cycle back and forth, and BIOS says, bad hard drive. I confirmed this by replacing.

My question: can I trust them not to steal my info? Could I break the connectors and be safe? Could I drop it on the cement and insure it is broken? How can I break it for sure, so they don't know I did it?

Why would they want bad hard drives back? How could they possibly pay someone to test them? Is my drive going to be sitting in a bin somewhere for years until someone steals them and gleans my data?

I'm getting a little facetiously paranoid here, but really? What would you all do in this situation?

 

[Starthinker]

When they get the old drive they are most likely just going to melt it down and recover precious metals and dispose of hazardous materials. If it's broken they won't recover anything off of it anyway and would most likely have no desire to even look for anything.

 

[MG1962]

If you know any computer shops or such around you, see if you can find someone to run a magnet over the hard drive

Also in the past I know that HP accepted hard drives that had been destroyed ie with a hammer. But please confirm that before doing it. It was a few years ago, and policy could change

 

[elgarak]

I have though about this problem also. I had a similar problem about a year ago, but in my case the drive would not even spin, or show any sign of powering up. I think the big magnet is the only option if you're paranoid, but I think the risk is quite small, since...

1) Considering HP's size, it's fairly unlikely the data would be used. HP does not need to do this. You could sue them, and make a big publicity stink if you can trace back the breach to the drive that HP would want to avoid.

2) Considering that the drive is already damaged: It would be hard work to recover the data. I find it unlikely that anyone would spent much time and work, without knowing the worth of the data beforehand, when there are much easier ways to obtain such data.

 

[Olowkow]

I have though about this problem also. I had a similar problem about a year ago, but in my case the drive would not even spin, or show any sign of powering up. I think the big magnet is the only option if you're paranoid, but I think the risk is quite small, since...

1) Considering HP's size, it's fairly unlikely the data would be used. HP does not need to do this. You could sue them, and make a big publicity stink if you can trace back the breach to the drive that HP would want to avoid.

2) Considering that the drive is already damaged: It would be hard work to recover the data. I find it unlikely that anyone would spent much time and work, without knowing the worth of the data beforehand, when there are much easier ways to obtain such data.

Thanks. I like the magnet idea.

I could picture some jerk computer geek buying these by the ton however, and spending his spare time getting credit card info, bank account numbers and passwords, etc. It would be very hard to trace, let alone sue anyone once your life savings are gone.

 

[dtugg]

I find it highly doubtful that HP is going to try to look for for your data or sell the drive to somebody who might. If you are really that worried that this will happen, I suggest that you don't even send it in for warranty replacement and just buy a new one. How much will a new drive cost you? Probably not more than $100 unless it is a 2TB drive which seems unlikely. Seems well worth it if you are that worried.

 

[dtugg]

One more thing. OP, if you are that worried that someone may get your data, I suggest that you encrypt you drive(s). That is pretty much the only way to be completely safe. If you send the encrypted drive for warranty replacement, there is no way that they will be able to get anything off of it. If somebody steals your computer, there is no way to get anything off of it. If you happen to be a criminal and they get a warrant to search your computer, there is no way they will get anything off of it.

I suggest TrueCrypt which is free. It has many different options. To be completely safe, encrypt the whole drive. If you do that, the whole drive will be (seemingly) random 0s and 1s until you put the correct password when prompted on booting up. You could just encrypt certain volumes but information can leak to temporary folders (especially on Windows), so the only way to be sure is to encrypt the whole drive. You could also create encrypted volumes inside of encrypted drives.

 

[Ron Webb]

Thanks. I like the magnet idea.

By "magnet" we mean a degaussing device far more powerful than anything a typical home user is likely to have. Remember, the drive platter is encased in metal, an almost perfect Faraday cage specifically designed to protect it from magnetic fields.

I like MG1962's suggestion. Ask around at your local IT shops. If they have a degausser, it takes less than a minute to render your drive unreadable, so they'd probably do it for free. Even if they don't have one, they can probably tell you who does.

Another idea: Some people used to literally drill a couple of holes through their dead hard drive, which should make it unrecoverable by anyone except maybe the NSA. I don't think HP would object, but you could phone them and confirm.

By the way, the only reason they want your old drive back is so that they know you're not scamming them, claiming your drive is dead just so you can get a second drive for free. If they've already agreed to replace it under warranty, they're not interested in diagnosis or repair at this point. But I don't blame you for being paranoid.

ETA:

I could picture some jerk computer geek buying these by the ton however, and spending his spare time getting credit card info, bank account numbers and passwords, etc. It would be very hard to trace, let alone sue anyone once your life savings are gone.

There's no way any reputable company would sell your defective drive to anyone else. But there's always the risk of some unscrupulous employee poking around in his spare time.

 

[BigAl]

By "magnet" we mean a degaussing device far more powerful than anything a typical home user is likely to have. Remember, the drive platter is encased in metal, an almost perfect Faraday cage specifically designed to protect it from magnetic fields.

For maybe 10 years, degaussing equipment hasn't been powerful enough to wipe modern disks. I'm talking about NSA-rated unfordable equipment like these;


http://www.garner-products.com/harddrive.htm

NSA/DOD Approved: The REM-1400NSA meets the Department of Defense requirements for destroying magnetically recorded data on hard disks drives up to 5300 Oe and tape media up to 2600 Oe. (this is a 385 pound model and probably requires the power of an electric oven.)

I've lost track of Oesteds specs, but every time I've looked at high-end degauss machines they haven't been quite up to the coercivity of the latest disk drives. Yes, We were ready to buy one of these at work until I pointed this out. I've always gone back to the sledge hammer.

Discarding a working disk is one thing but someone would have to spend time and money fixing your disk on the guess that there was data they could profit from on it.

 

[Starthinker]

Sticking a drive in a microwave and let it arc for a second or two will do the trick as well.

 

[catsmate]

If you know any computer shops or such around you, see if you can find someone to run a magnet over the hard drive

Also in the past I know that HP accepted hard drives that had been destroyed ie with a hammer. But please confirm that before doing it. It was a few years ago, and policy could change

The is still policy for corporate support, physical destruction is the norm there, and HP will take the scrap. Check if that's OK for your return.

The main danger is from a bored tech. If there's a problem with a batch/type of drive then there may be an examination of the drive.

It spins, but the head is heard to cycle back and forth, and BIOS says, bad hard drive. I confirmed this by replacing.

This could be a fault with the drive electronics, not too difficult to fix but rarely worth the trouble.

There's no way any reputable company would sell your defective drive to anyone else. But there's always the risk of some unscrupulous employee poking around in his spare time.

Or checking the drive for legitimate reasons, getting it running and rummaging through your files for fun. Also the drive will go back to the manufacturer and they'll usually test a portion of returns at random, even if a particular batch isn't giving higher than normal return rates.

The usual reason for HP or any OEM/integrator to want the drive back is book keeping; the system has a check box for getting the faulty drive back on the warranty form and that must he checked by the drone. No-one really cares.
Speaking from personal experience HP's processes are slipshod; once I ordered a replacement DVD-RW module for a notebook and by the end of the following week I'd accumulated two DVD/CD-RW modules and two DVD-RWs modules of a different type plus the correct one.

There's no way any reputable company would sell your defective drive to anyone else.

Just avoid DSG......

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Did you ask if you could send back part of the drive? They are probably just trying to make sure you're not scamming them.

If HP is making money on the recycling they are probably only interested in the aluminum and the fancy magnets. If you take it apart you could keep the platters and send them the parts they want to recycle.

IMO, hammers are better than magnets at "erasing" data. Especially on drives where the platters are made of glass.

ETA: If you take it apart yourself, wear eye protection.

 

[BigAl]

Sticking a drive in a microwave and let it arc for a second or two will do the trick as well.

It's easy to fry the electronics but your data is on the platters until the temperature of the magnetic film is raised past the Curie point of the magnetic coating. Since platters are encased in metal, microwaves will never get to the platters for direct heating.

This is all academic unless you disk is of interest to someone with lots of money to spend on reading it.

Smashing the disk is cheap, easy and sometimes has a degree of satisfaction. In a business environment the destroyed disk can be shown to anyone as proof of destruction. A degaussed disk looks like any other.

 

[Olowkow]

I appreciate everyone's input. Actually, I have dealt only with Indians, and they are all clueless. I took a drive (ATA) out of my old computer and plugged it in, and it does work so I am sure the drive is the problem.

I got the new drive via FED EX, along with all the software, after arranging for a guy to come on Monday and install it. I agreed to this because they told me the drive would arrive with no software, and the guy would bring the CDs on Monday.

I would rather install the thing myself, but I called, and was told I need to cancel the appointment for the guy to come, first, then I can call back and get instructions for replacing it. The guy could not tell me what happens if it somehow should not work. So, after 30 minutes on hold etc, I finally hung up, and will await the guy on Monday to come to install it.

If he wants to take the old drive with him I will balk, and tell him I would rather ship it using the provided FED EX label. Then, probably never ship it. So sue me! If an argument ensues, I will handcuff him to the chair, and call the Indians to ask for further instructions....

Questions like:

Did you ask if you could send back part of the drive? They are probably just trying to make sure you're not scamming them

make perfectly good sense, but if you are on the line with Muhammed, it somehow does not get through the language barrier filter in a finite amount of time.
sigh.....Life was so much simpler before computers.

 

[Olowkow]

So, the outcome? Had to ship the old drive back, or pay them $500.

 

[dtugg]

So, the outcome? Had to ship the old drive back, or pay them $500.

What? Why?

 

[Olowkow]

What? Why?

That's the policy. And oh yes, if I don't ship it back, the young lady who installed the drive does not get paid either.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Depending on where you are, HP may be legally obliged to dispose of it due to environmental legislation.
It's an interesting question that must have arisen many times.
You might try actually writing to them, or phone the nearest plant, and ask to speak to someone sane who can get you the name of the person you need.

Good luck with this.