What's so great about dolphins???

23_Tauri said:
I think it's got more to do with the mythos that been created around these cetaceans by the crystal-hugging New Age woo crowd.
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Do you dispute that they are the most intelligent non-human animals with the possible exception of chimpanzees or do you think the idea of compassion/respect toward any non-human animals whatsoever is a woo belief?

While it's true that new age woos are probably more likely to care about animal treatment, pointing out such an association would be a poor argument. How many Christian woos argue the opposite? "God put animals on the earth for us to use however we want". Don't forget the majority of the world's population are woos of some form or another. It would be wrong to assume these are all just woo beliefs though. Many prominent skeptics including Dawkins have spoken favorably of the pro animal welfare movement (Peter Singer comes to mind in particular).

I realize you weren't making that argument, BTW. You were just speculating.


Did dolphins really how this place is popular culture before they became the subject of woefully bad paintings, surrounded by rainbows, fairy dust and pink unicorns?
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I think it's a result of scientific studies into animal intelligence... I'm not familiar with these pink unicorn paintings, but they sound more like a preteen girl and/or gay pride thing. :)
 
cornsail said:
Do you dispute that they are the most intelligent non-human animals with the possible exception of chimpanzees or do you think the idea of compassion/respect toward any non-human animals whatsoever is a woo belief?
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I didn't say anything of the sort. I pointed to dolphins being associated with rainbows and New Agers. What the dolphins think of this is anybody's guess. I reckon they'd be mortified if they knew. I did not insinuate anything about their intelligence level and have no reason to doubt that they are a highly evolved mammal (just lacking that opposable thumb)

cornsail said:
I think it's a result of scientific studies into animal intelligence... I'm not familiar with these pink unicorn paintings, but they sound more like a preteen girl and/or gay pride thing. :)
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Take a jaunt to your local New Age woo crystal shop. Pink dolphins flying through twinky rainbows galore. You might even find a T-shirt so adorned.

Gay pride? Nah! Might be a gay rodeo thing though... ;)
 
plumjam said:
I say save the dolphins and eat the Japanese.
I mean, when was the last time a Jap brought any kind of joyful expression to your poor, tired face?
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Are you kidding? The japanese are awesome.









 
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23_Tauri said:
I didn't say anything of the sort. I pointed to dolphins being associated with rainbows and New Agers. What the dolphins think of this is anybody's guess. I reckon they'd be mortified if they knew. I did not insinuate anything about their intelligence level and have no reason to doubt that they are a highly evolved mammal (just lacking that opposable thumb)
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I know, hence "I realize you weren't making that argument, BTW."

Take a jaunt to your local New Age woo crystal shop. Pink dolphins flying through twinky rainbows galore. You might even find a T-shirt so adorned.

Gay pride? Nah! Might be a gay rodeo thing though... ;)
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Lol, okay I'll take your word for that (doesn't sound implausible).
 
23 Tauri said:
ok, we're cool (like your aardvark :))
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Thanks, I like your sheep and/or goat.
check these out. Niiiiiiiice....
http://www.animalshirts.net/dolphinshirts/index.htm
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I actually own a shirt from that very site:

pocketwolf.jpg


Don't tell The Central Scrutinizer, though, he has already questioned my masculinity.
 
Don't tell The Central Scrutinizer, though, he has already questioned my masculinity.
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can understand him very well.

you also wear that t-shirt? :D
 
I don't think the argument that there's something morally distasteful about eating an animal with high intelligence holds much water at all. As another poster noted, some people eat chimps. Even more commonly, pork is eaten the widely throughout the world. Pigs are not only highly intelligent mammals, but comparatively genetically close to humans I believe (any biologists here might be able to confirm that).

As for dolphins, or whales for that matter, would I eat them? Yes, if they tasted good and they weren't an endangered species. Those would be my two limiting factors.

Cornsail, you really own that T-shirt?

Not wanting to de-rail the thread, but we don't eat other meat-eaters (like wolves), do we? I've always found that curious. There is the point that they are much more scarce in number than herbivores of course, and that they wouldn't take well to domestication. Perhaps though there is something intuitive in humans that perceives other carnivores* at the top of the food chain as 'more like us'.

*yes I know technically humans are omnivores
 
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23_Tauri said:
I don't think the argument that there's something morally distasteful about eating an animal with high intelligence holds much water at all. As another poster noted, some people eat chimps. Even more commonly, pork is eaten the widely throughout the world. Pigs are not only highly intelligent mammals, but comparatively genetically close to humans I believe (any biologists here might be able to confirm that).

As for dolphins, or whales for that matter, would I eat them? Yes, if they tasted good and they weren't an endangered species. Those would be my two limiting factors.

Cornsail, you really own that T-shirt?

Not wanting to de-rail the thread, but we don't eat other meat-eaters (like wolves), do we? I've always found that curious. There is the point that they are much more scarce in number than herbivores of course, and that they wouldn't take well to domestication. Perhaps though there is something intuitive in humans that perceives other carnivores* at the top of the food chain as 'more like us'.

*yes I know technically humans are omnivores
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are dolphins an endangered species?
 
DC said:
are dolphins an endangered species?
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I have no idea. Maybe it depends on the particular species of dolphin?

Aside: eating a wild dolphin seems to me to be a lot more humane than keeping one in life-time captivity for the pleasure and delight of theme park visitors.
 
23_Tauri said:
I have no idea. Maybe it depends on the particular species of dolphin?

Aside: eating a wild dolphin seems to me to be a lot more humane than keeping one in life-time captivity for the pleasure and delight of theme park visitors.
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yes it depends, some are endangered, but afaik non of those are eaten regularely. but i could be wrong on that. not sure.

and about eating a wild one. i think it depends on how you hunt them.

one of the best things i ever have eaten was frog legs, i just tested it and will never again eat it, do to the way they kill the frogs.
 
23_Tauri said:
I don't think the argument that there's something morally distasteful about eating an animal with high intelligence holds much water at all. As another poster noted, some people eat chimps. Even more commonly, pork is eaten the widely throughout the world. Pigs are not only highly intelligent mammals, but comparatively genetically close to humans I believe (any biologists here might be able to confirm that).
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This seems to be the argument that we do it, therefore it must be okay. Some people eat chimps? Well the vast majority of us don't. And dolphins are smarter than pigs.

Cornsail, you really own that T-shirt?
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Yes.

Not wanting to de-rail the thread, but we don't eat other meat-eaters (like wolves), do we? I've always found that curious. There is the point that they are much more scarce in number than herbivores of course, and that they wouldn't take well to domestication. Perhaps though there is something intuitive in humans that perceives other carnivores* at the top of the food chain as 'more like us'.

*yes I know technically humans are omnivores
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Fish tend to be meat eaters. Dolphins are meat eaters. As far as land animals go, you're right we tend not to eat them very often, but I doubt it's due to some feeling of identification. Ease of hunting prior to domestication and taste are probably big factors.
 
23_Tauri said:
I don't think the argument that there's something morally distasteful about eating an animal with high intelligence holds much water at all. As another poster noted, some people eat chimps. Even more commonly, pork is eaten the widely throughout the world. Pigs are not only highly intelligent mammals, but comparatively genetically close to humans I believe (any biologists here might be able to confirm that).

As for dolphins, or whales for that matter, would I eat them? Yes, if they tasted good and they weren't an endangered species. Those would be my two limiting factors.

Cornsail, you really own that T-shirt?

Not wanting to de-rail the thread, but we don't eat other meat-eaters (like wolves), do we? I've always found that curious. There is the point that they are much more scarce in number than herbivores of course, and that they wouldn't take well to domestication. Perhaps though there is something intuitive in humans that perceives other carnivores* at the top of the food chain as 'more like us'.

*yes I know technically humans are omnivores
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Pigs are omnivores as well. We also eat bear meat, and dog and cat meat are fairly common in some places. The reason we don't farm carnivores is that it's inefficient; you'd have to raise animals as food for the carnivore, which would effectively mean you'd need ten times more fodder to raise a bear than a pig of the same size.

(Yes, I know that would be one monster of a pig.)
 
Yeah, good answer. How did that one slip past me? BTW farming herbivores is also inefficient compared with plants for the same reason.
 
Probably just comes down to what you think of as "food" or not because of what you've been raised with.

I read an article awhile back (sorry, don't remember where) about how kids under 3 are still open to anything, but after 3ish they absorb their cultural prejudices about what's "gross" or not. So if you grow up eating bugs it's okay, but if you never eat one while you're young, you'll probably be repulsed.

And that's definitely not due to any sympathy or empathy for bugs.

(On the other hand, my kids had pretty strong opinions about what things they considered "yucky" long before the age of 3, and regardless of what the rest of us ate.)
 
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