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Adopted Boy Sent Back To Russia

[snipped the part that wasn't relevant] I felt that the topic of this thread was being overlooked in that exchange.[snipped the part that wasn't relevant]
My comment only applied to Travis' comment.

But bringing it back to the thread, the point of my comment was the 'absolute bad person' condemnations here aren't considering many of the possible extenuating circumstances.
 
That wasn't Travis' statement I was replying to. He said, "someone who gives up a kids just because they are handicapped, I'll definitely condemn them for that!"

Your reply was not an example of someone giving up a child just because he was handicapped. And as pointed out, was not a case of simply dumping the child on a plane and sending him somewhere, completely unannounced.
 
I'm not arguing that these folks tried everything they could. I'm suggesting maybe they were simply not qualified to know what to do and/or to be able to do it. Someone in that circumstance isn't necessarily going to take the right steps.

Parents are not born with the education to be parents. Just because you adopt is no guarantee of parental skills either.

An orphanage or adoption agency placing a special needs kids with an unqualified parent bears some of the responsibility. I'm just saying, there is no absolute, the mother is a witch, in this case.

If the kid really does have those problems and if the orphanage and/or agency knew and if they lied about it, then yes they have some responsibility also.

Regardless, when you become a parent -- either you have a baby and choose not to give it up, or you adopt -- you take on responsibility.

If you seek out an adoption of A) an older child (an adoption route known to have the potential for problems) B) overseas (obvious potential for adjustment problems) from C) Russia (known to have potential for fetal alcohol problems in abandoned kids), then you can't turn around and say "Gosh I had no idea there might be a problem." If she truly went through that process so oblivious to the possible problems, then she is still responsible for her failure to understand what she was doing.

Anyway, seeking help from a doctor, the agency, a social worker -- none of that is incredibly hard. This isn't stuff you have to have a psychology degree to consider.

It does however say, they took care to find legitimate care on the other end of the jet ride, and they didn't just turn the kid over to "someone they contacted on the Internet" implies.

He was just someone they contacted on the internet. How does that constitute "legitimate care?" Did they do a criminal background check I hadn't noticed in the stories? Ask for references?
 
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At this point, we don't have a lot of information to be drawing these conclusions about what this family did or didn't do before they sent the kid on a plane. They could have been told tough luck on the phone by an agency that didn't keep a record of the calls. There are many possibilities.
I'm struggling to understand that any health practitioner - who should have been first stop when a child displays odd behaviours - would suggest/support finding a lawyer and shipping the damaged goods back to supplier. It implies strongly to me that they never sought any help or advice for this boy, but simply wanted rid.
 
My comment only applied to Travis' comment.

My comment only applied to your comment.

But bringing it back to the thread, the point of my comment was the 'absolute bad person' condemnations here aren't considering many of the possible extenuating circumstances.
Very true. And should we learn that any of those possible extenuating circumstances pertain then the discussion may well take a different cast.

We can hypothesize all sorts of circumstances. We can hypothesize an emotionally arrested adoptive parent who managed to snow a well meaning agency in another country only to come home and discover that raising a traumatized adolescent boy isn't the same as buying a dress-up dolly. We can hypothesize a 'grandma' who is an over-protective control freak with enough scorn for the laws of other countries to treat a child from one of them like a blouse that didn't look right with a favorite skirt, and think she could just return it.

Sadly, we can hypothesize these scenarios with more plausibility.

Working only with the evidence at hand it is not unreasonable to suggest that the adoptive parent (and her mother) acted inappropriately. That parent (and her mother) do not seem to be offering reasonable explanations to counter such an impression. Quite the opposite, in fact. They're clamming up, and lawyering up. Maybe if they had sought advice for their problem before dumping the kid, instead of seeking advice afterward on how to stay out of hot water for doing it this discussion might not be taking place.
 
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If the kid really does have those problems and if the orphanage and/or agency knew and if they lied about it, then yes they have some responsibility also.

Regardless, when you become a parent -- either you have a baby and choose not to give it up, or you adopt -- you take on responsibility.

If you seek out an adoption of A) an older child (an adoption route known to have the potential for problems) B) overseas (obvious potential for adjustment problems) from C) Russia (known to have potential for fetal alcohol problems in abandoned kids), then you can't turn around and say "Gosh I had no idea there might be a problem." If she truly went through that process so oblivious to the possible problems, then she is still responsible for her failure to understand what she was doing.

Anyway, seeking help from a doctor, the agency, a social worker -- none of that is incredibly hard. This isn't stuff you have to have a psychology degree to consider.



He was just someone they contacted on the internet. How does that constitute "legitimate care?" Did they do a criminal background check I hadn't noticed in the stories? Ask for references?
Folks:
If parents were ALL required to go through what we went through for adoption-classes and seminars 2 times a week for 6 weeks, legal stuff, etc., there would NOT be a population problem.
Part of all that was discussion and presentations on the problems that could arise, and resources available to us, the parents. We were fully aware of who to go to, whom to call, and what to do. City, County, State, our own insurance plans, everything.
Maybe they don't do that--but we had to be approved by the agency and the state before we could do anything.
Something is very fishy in Tennessee.
 
Even if we allow that this person is a horrible mother because of what she did, I still can't fault her actions. Because of what she did, the Russian adoption officials have a second chance to place the child in a proper caring home, yes?
 
Even if we allow that this person is a horrible mother because of what she did, I still can't fault her actions. Because of what she did, the Russian adoption officials have a second chance to place the child in a proper caring home, yes?


For some reason I get the feeling that you would try to not find fault with her actions under nearly any circumstances. I'm uncertain why you should be so adamant about this.

Her actions may have negatively affected the future adoption alternatives for thousands of children. Do you see that as beneficial too?
 
For some reason I get the feeling that you would try to not find fault with her actions under nearly any circumstances. I'm uncertain why you should be so adamant about this.

Her actions may have negatively affected the future adoption alternatives for thousands of children. Do you see that as beneficial too?

I don't understand what you mean by "so adamant"; I was under the impression that this was a pretty casual conversation.

As for the negative effect her actions would have on Russian adoptions - again I'm going to have to behave predictably and say "I'm not so sure". The Russian government's response to what happened wasn't the only alternative they had, either; I'm reticent to make her responsible for their decision.
 
I don't understand what you mean by "so adamant"; I was under the impression that this was a pretty casual conversation.


"Adamant": unyielding. A reasonable person could judge by your posts in this thread that you are intent on finding this woman blameless in spite of any evidence suggesting the contrary.

As for the negative effect her actions would have on Russian adoptions - again I'm going to have to behave predictably and say "I'm not so sure". The Russian government's response to what happened wasn't the only alternative they had, either; I'm reticent to make her responsible for their decision.


What response do you suppose they would have had if the incident never took place? What responsibility do you think she has for the fact that it did?
 
Your reply was not an example of someone giving up a child just because he was handicapped. ...
They didn't give up their other 2 sons.

But regardless, you are just agreeing with my point. Before you judge someone's actions, you should look at the circumstances.

I suppose what you are saying is my friend's dad's brain tumor was a legit excuse but an unprepared single mother (I'm getting that picture anyway) lied to by adoption officials was not a legit excuse. You are saying institutionalizing a mentally disabled child is OK but believing you are sending him back to the institution he previously lived in is not OK. Why? Because that institution was in Russia? Because the mother screwed up on the procedure?

Both kids were essentially sent to an institution.
 
...
He was just someone they contacted on the internet. How does that constitute "legitimate care?" Did they do a criminal background check I hadn't noticed in the stories? Ask for references?
My brother needed an attorney in Australia and he was living in Oregon. He went to the Internet and found an Aussie attorney. I booked places to stay online in Peru and Ecuador before traveling to So America. It wasn't hard to tell a legit site from a flakey one.

Every web site online is not the equivalent of Chat Roulette.
 
They screwed it up for a lot of adoptive parent wannabes. I can understand having problems with a child but this is going way too far.
It's political posturing. It'll result in a short term delay and nothing more.

But I can't see how this mother and grandmother could have foreseen such a political brouhaha.
 
I'm struggling to understand that any health practitioner - who should have been first stop when a child displays odd behaviours - would suggest/support finding a lawyer and shipping the damaged goods back to supplier. It implies strongly to me that they never sought any help or advice for this boy, but simply wanted rid.
So you suggest I should have no empathy for the mother in this case?

What I don't understand are the people here willing to villainize the mother before the facts of the case are fully revealed. How do you know she just callously decided to return the 'damaged goods'?

What I know is some kids, even very young ones, can indeed be very dangerous. Do you recall the infamous murder of 2 yr old James Bulgar by 2 10 yr olds?

And what else I know is not every adoptive parent instinctively knows what to do if they become afraid of a child they have adopted. Not every parent is necessarily prepared for such a case. That doesn't make that parent evil or callous. That parent could easily be desperate regardless of what the people at the adoption agency are saying. In fact, the agency could be covering up their own failures in this case claiming they could have helped had they been contacted.

The record of other parents misled for numerous reasons by adoption agencies and other individuals is not hard to find.

This web page has many stories from parents who adopted disturbed children and the parents were misled about the children before the adoption. While the records are one sided anecdotes, the sheer number of repeating themes is hard to deny.

Here are a couple examples:
CT ADOPTER CLAIMS "WRONGFUL ADOPTION" by J. Block-Gianini
(Adopters in CT and Nationwide Can Add Their Comments at Abolish Adoption! petition page)
I adopted a boy from Connecticut DCYF. After destroying my home and my life, I could take no more and made the state take him back. They tried to charge me with neglect. They couldn't prove it though. I did pay a lawyer a lot of money to not go along with their bullying tactics. This boy told a state social worker he was homicidal and until she asked him 4 or five times if he was sure he was homicidal he said he didn't think so. I of course had him leave my home. My sister, a third year law student, discovered recently that he was on Risperdal; they said it was for PTSD...It is for schizophrenia, and I now realize that is what he has definitely. I am looking for any people that are in Connecticut with these tort claims as I am going to pursue a case against the state of CT for "wrongful adoption." -- Joanna Block Gianini

I am part of the ever-increasing number of adoptive families who have been lied to concerning their children's pasts, with those lies leading to the serious injury of members of the adoptive family.

In my case, my youngest adoptive son was brutally raped by an older adoptive son. This older son has been declared a serious threat to society by Illinois DCFS. He will be on their sex offender list for 50 years, which means it is illegal for him to be in contact with those he might victimize. Now DCFS, as per their usual policy, plan to remove him from the locked residential treatment facility where he is temporarily housed, and move him to a regular foster home. His current therapist says that this kid has made no progress and has a 100% chance of reoffending.

..... A false light was cast on these boys' background in their behavior and personality by the department,' Block said. "It was a slick marketing job so they can dump these children on the adoptive parents. And that's what they did, they literally dumped these kids."

"....The boys also broke their adoptive mother's jaw, tried to poison her and intentionally injured their older, previously adopted brother, ' Block said."

When they left the state children's home here in 1996, 7-year-old Gabor and 8-year-old Karoly were looking forward to a bright future as the newly adopted sons of two American couples in the wealthy suburbs of Connecticut.

In March, the boys, their names now officially Gabriel Petrosino and Jeremy Harper and their language now English, found themselves back in Hungary, delivered with little ado to the doorstep of Budapest' s main orphanage, each with two bags of clothing and toys, and a lifetime of emotional scars.

Their adoptive parents had simply had enough. They said the boys were children from hell, violent and emotionally disturbed. Unwilling and unable to fit in, they were destroying the lives of their adoptive families...

..The two boys are now back in foster care, but Hungarian officials say the case has revealed the dark side of Hungary's adoption system, which does not properly prepare or screen prospective parents and which they suspect is riddled with bribery, corruption and even baby- selling schemes.

My point is not which of these parents are irresponsible monsters and which of the children are really serial murderers on their way to their calling. My point is, it's easy from the outside to think you understand what went on here. But in truth, there is an incredibly broad range of possible facts in the case. I see no reason to condemn an adoptive parent for ignorance in knowing what to do with such a child.

And I'm not convinced, as I said before, that just because someone has tricked a parent into taking a troubled child out of an orphanage, that new parent is cruel and evil if they were unprepared to take care of a disturbed child.
 
....
Working only with the evidence at hand it is not unreasonable to suggest that the adoptive parent (and her mother) acted inappropriately. ...
In my opinion, this ignores the potential situation when an unprepared person finds oneself caring for a seriously emotionally disturbed child.

Having an understanding just how serious such a situation might easily be gives me more empathy for this mother and grandmother than some other people in this thread seem to have.
 
Folks:
If parents were ALL required to go through what we went through for adoption-classes and seminars 2 times a week for 6 weeks, legal stuff, etc., there would NOT be a population problem.
Part of all that was discussion and presentations on the problems that could arise, and resources available to us, the parents. We were fully aware of who to go to, whom to call, and what to do. City, County, State, our own insurance plans, everything.
Maybe they don't do that--but we had to be approved by the agency and the state before we could do anything.
Something is very fishy in Tennessee.
There are very good adoption agencies and some not so good. There are states with much better laws and foster care systems than other states.
 

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