Split Thread Barbra Streisand, Sean Penn, truthers?

[sheeplesnshills]

If some new, standard, twoof troll came by here and said the exact same thing that Babas is saying, they'd be branded a LIHOP'er lickety split. Where's the standards here?

No we would ask her what she thought had really happened and would judge her on her reply. Her statements imply incompetance not evil intent.
very few would say that any branch of the US gov. acted competently on 911 but thats a huge step from it being a LIHOP

If we start making up "facts" we are as bad as the truthers.

 

[Cicero]

Oh c'mon now....

If some new, standard, twoof troll came by here and said the exact same thing that Babas is saying, they'd be branded a LIHOP'er lickety split. Where's the standards here?

As many of you know, we have been inundated with CTers lately come here to with their "just asking questions" smoke screen.

However, we seem to have contracted a new strain of CTer, more virulent and tenacious than any previous incarnations.

This new strain seems to delight in ignoring their own contradictions and inconsistencies, and any inconvenient counter arguments and direct questions. They simply post and repost the same baseless assertions over and over again.

johnny karate brands anyone who even asks "questions about 911" as a "CTer." Babs doesn't even employ some "smoke screen" hiding her true motives and yet her 911 bilge somehow excuses her from the LIHOPer label.

 

[Seymour Butz]

Her statements imply incompetance not evil intent.

So how does that distinguish her from the majority of twoofs?

 

[Cicero]

No we would ask her what she thought had really happened and would judge her on her reply. Her statements imply incompetance not evil intent.
very few would say that any branch of the US gov. acted competently on 911 but thats a huge step from it being a LIHOPIf we start making up "facts" we are as bad as the truthers.

That doesn't jibe with the troothers POV. The troothers accept Babs POV as being in concert with their own.

"...diverts the truth movement away from its unified belief that 9/11 was not properly prevented, investigated, and explained or that government officials, insiders and unknown guilty parties were never held accountable or reprimanded.”

http://activistnyc.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/lihop-vs-mihop/

Babs comments echo The Truth Movement's charges.

 

[willhaven]

What? Sure she does. Bush, after being informed of the attack on WTC, should have shot down FL 77, killing all aboard, so it would have saved the lives of those killed in The Pentagon. How would Babs suppose Bush could give an order to shoot down some unknown commercial airliner whose destination was unknown?

BUSH WAS INACTIVE AND INDECISIVE FOR A FULL 7 MINUTES THE MORNING OF 9/11 WHEN INFORMED OF THE ATTACK ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTER. IF BUSH HAD ACTED QUICKLY AND INTELLIGENTLY PERHAPS HE COULD HAVE GIVEN AN ORDER TO SHOOT DOWN THE PLANE HEADED TOWARD THE PENTAGON AND SAVED THE LIVES OF THOSE WHO WERE KILLED

Still not entirely conclusive. They knew what flights were off course at that point, even without foreknowledge it's conceivable that she believes something could have been done to prevent it without Babs believing that Bush knew weeks or months beforehand what was going to happen.

Oh c'mon now....

If some new, standard, twoof troll came by here and said the exact same thing that Babas is saying, they'd be branded a LIHOP'er lickety split. Where's the standards here?

Well, on an internet forum we have the privilege of asking someone to clarify their beliefs. With Babs, all we have are a couple of quotes. I'd say that all evidence points to crazy, but her quotes alone aren't conclusive enough (in my view) to pin her as a LIHOPer.

 

[Dave Rogers]

That doesn't jibe with the troothers POV. The troothers accept Babs POV as being in concert with their own.

"...diverts the truth movement away from its unified belief that 9/11 was not properly prevented, investigated, and explained or that government officials, insiders and unknown guilty parties were never held accountable or reprimanded.”

http://activistnyc.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/lihop-vs-mihop/

Babs comments echo The Truth Movement's charges.

No, they don't, and it's classic truther equivocation to claim that they do. People who claim that the US government carried out the 9/11 attacks cannot possibly also claim that the US government was incompetent in allowing the attacks to happen. They like to pretend, however, that these utterly incompatible claims are identical, in order to pretend support exists for their movement when and where it does not. It's as delusional and confused as every other aspect of their thinking.

Dave

 

[Cicero]

No, they don't, and it's classic truther equivocation to claim that they do. People who claim that the US government carried out the 9/11 attacks cannot possibly also claim that the US government was incompetent in allowing the attacks to happen. They like to pretend, however, that these utterly incompatible claims are identical, in order to pretend support exists for their movement when and where it does not. It's as delusional and confused as every other aspect of their thinking.

Dave

You just now managed to figure out troother woo? Babs does not think being called a troother, or being associated with The Truth Movement, is a pejorative or a character flaw. Mr. Streisand is a troother and Babs doesn't feel obliged to distance herself from his comments anymore than he does hers.

 

[Cicero]

Still not entirely conclusive. They knew what flights were off course at that point, even without foreknowledge it's conceivable that she believes something could have been done to prevent it without Babs believing that Bush knew weeks or months beforehand what was going to happen.


Well, on an internet forum we have the privilege of asking someone to clarify their beliefs. With Babs, all we have are a couple of quotes. I'd say that all evidence points to crazy, but her quotes alone aren't conclusive enough (in my view) to pin her as a LIHOPer.

Conclusive in a court of law? Based on JREFer standards of labeling faceless others, who have expressed the same opinions on this forum, as troothers, she meets and exceeds the standard.

 

[willhaven]

In your opinion anyway. I find her statements alone to be inconclusive and I think you're reading a lot into them when coming to a conclusion.

Given that her husband is a truther, I figure she probably is. It's not a given, but it's quite likely. My father is a truther and my mother isn't. I have to avoid the topic with my father now. There's no talking sense with him.

 

[Cicero]

In your opinion anyway. I find her statements alone to be inconclusive and I think you're reading a lot into them when coming to a conclusion.

Given that her husband is a truther, I figure she probably is. It's not a given, but it's quite likely. My father is a truther and my mother isn't. I have to avoid the topic with my father now. There's no talking sense with him.

Sure it is my opinion, but more to the point, it is the opinion of the troothers who include her comments on their websites and call her one of their own.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Conclusive in a court of law? Based on JREFer standards of labeling faceless others, who have expressed the same opinions on this forum, as troothers, she meets and exceeds the standard.

And yet you stated, "Barbra Streisand and Sean Penn have proclaimed 9/11 to be an inside job." (My bold.)

Twist and spin all you like, but you, in your charming right-wingy way, got it wrong. Faced with this, you, an anonymous forum entity, can't bring yourself to admitting error (while bleating on about the inaccuracies of those you oppose).

The human ego is an amazing thing.

 

[willhaven]

Sure it is my opinion, but more to the point, it is the opinion of the troothers who include her comments on their websites and call her one of their own.

Truthers: known for their uncanny ability to use only the most rock solid evidence to support their theories.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

<snipped> (quoted for reference post)

I don't think the quotes represent much more than his ultra creepy partisan woo. The truth movement is notorious for taking any derogatory stance against Bush or anything relating to 9/11 and him as "support for their causes" so don't be shocked if some of those notions at least are half truths at best. :\

Penn IS on record however for claiming that
the Bush administration was fascist and advocating jail time for people who call Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez a dictator. These are sentiments shared by many conspiracy theorists who also believe 9/11 to be an inside job, and even without supporting 9/11 truth directly he may be associating with their members on that basis. :\

I think the guy's a creep; but then, being vulgar and conspiratorial isn't limited to the 9/11 truther movement either.

 

[HyJinX]

What I don't understand is why truthers think having any celebrity woven into their organization gives their mantras more credibility. You'd think they'd want scientists, engineers and experts in related fields on their side...not politically motivated washed up has-beens or never-were's. What truther's don't seem to grasp is that it's not how many you have in your camp, but how many in your camp can provide evidence that negates the current evidence. Hell, you could have 90% of the worlds population think that 9/11 was an inside job...but if the other 10% can prove that 90% percent wrong with scientific proof and evidence...what good is having that number on your side?

 

[alienentity]

Anyone have original press sources for the Streisand statements?
I looked, but just found some truther websites and this thread....

 

[dudalb]

I don't much like Babs...a lot of California Democrats don't, since she is a pain in the butt with her pretensions at being a major player in California Politics....but I see no evidence she is a Truther,although her Husband is one Big Time; if fact he is only second to Charlie Sheen as the "go to" celeb for The Twoofers.
As for Penn, I would not be surprised,but there is no proof. Although his praising Chavez for imprisoning oppostion members was so stupid that even a number of Penn's fellow Radiblib celebs are criticising him for his rant on the BIll Maher show.

 

[Cicero]

And yet you stated, "Barbra Streisand and Sean Penn have proclaimed 9/11 to be an inside job." (My bold.)

Twist and spin all you like, but you, in your charming right-wingy way, got it wrong. Faced with this, you, an anonymous forum entity, can't bring yourself to admitting error (while bleating on about the inaccuracies of those you oppose).

The human ego is an amazing thing.

Can you link to my original quote?

I have no problem admitting error and have done so on JREF. Babs being a LIHOPer (which is one who believes Bush didn't act out of incompetence, indifference, or malevolence) qualifies her as one who embraces the notion that 911 was "an inside job."

"...diverts the truth movement away from its unified belief that 9/11 was not properly prevented, investigated, and explained or that government officials, insiders and unknown guilty parties were never held accountable or reprimanded.”

Penn supports the Truth Movement. Why would he support them if he didn't believe Bush43 was responsible for 911?

BTW: Why has Babs and Penn being part of the Truth Movement effected you in such an emotional way? Do you go on troother sights and demand their names be stricken from their posted list of 911 Truthers? How far would you go to try to protect these two from the label of troofer when they themselves are fine with it?

 

[Cicero]

Anyone have original press sources for the Streisand statements?
I looked, but just found some truther websites and this thread....

If you don't believe Babs' own comments make her a LIHOPer, why would seeing the original source change your opinion? The fact you can't find her own website doesn't say much for your search skills.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Sure it is my opinion, but more to the point, it is the opinion of the troothers who include her comments on their websites and call her one of their own.

This is, let's remember, the movement which has claimed that its supporters include at least one person who died on 9/11. The fact that a bunch of delusional idiots think someone supports them is hardly compelling evidence of anything, given that they will happily claim that people who describe them as delusional idiots are also covertly supporting them. You commented on my figuring out their woo; I'm afraid I can't offer the same in return. Once you start buying into their deliberate blurring of the boundaries between accusations of incompetence and accusations of complicity to give the impression their movement has support, you're lost.

Dave

 

[Cicero]

This is, let's remember, the movement which has claimed that its supporters include at least one person who died on 9/11. The fact that a bunch of delusional idiots think someone supports them is hardly compelling evidence of anything, given that they will happily claim that people who describe them as delusional idiots are also covertly supporting them. You commented on my figuring out their woo; I'm afraid I can't offer the same in return. Once you start buying into their deliberate blurring of the boundaries between accusations of incompetence and accusations of complicity to give the impression their movement has support, you're lost.

Dave

If making generally idiotic comments alone were a requisite for entry into the Truth Movement, Babs and Penn would automatically qualify.

It is self-serving on your part to want to separate those who blame Bush 43 for being responsible for 911 because he refused to stop the plot out of indifference from those who blame Bush because he refused to stop the plot out of malevolence. Both "accusations" produce the same conclusion; Bush 43 is responsible for those who died on 911.