Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Matthew Best]

I see the Wiki page says this:

Other studies have confirmed the accuracy of current methods of HIV testing in the United States, reporting false-positive rates of 0.0004% to 0.0007% and false-negative rates of 0.003% in the general population.

 

[Matthew Best]

But thanks for linking to a site about "the Myth of AIDS" which contends that HIV does not cause AIDS.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I see the Wiki page says this:

So? I think we've established that false positives DO happen and certain factors can cause them and Amanda had at least one of those factors...Herpes simplex. And, if she was incubating a cold at the same time say, that would have raised the possibility even further. Moreover, we don't know what kit was used for the test. Since as policy they test all prisoners for HIV, mass testing, they no doubt use rather cheap kits for initial tests.

But, I think we can rule out what you are trying to insinuate. The doctor had absolutely no reason to tell her she was positive when she was not. First of all, he doesn't work for the police or prosecution and second of all, it is clear from Amanda's diary entry that he did not command her to go and list all her previous partners.

Therefore, we can accept the test for what it was, a simple mistake that sometimes happens.

 

[Fulcanelli]

But thanks for linking to a site about "the Myth of AIDS" which contends that HIV does not cause AIDS.

The list is fine. If you look below the list on the site you'll see each false positive on the list is sourced from scientific papers. And I'm sure if you bothered to do a google search, you'll find many other sources that list Herpes simplex, along with other things, as being a factor that can cause a false positive.

 

[Matthew Best]

But, I think we can rule out what you are trying to insinuate.

I've insinuated nothing - I guess you're rather defensive about the issue if you think I have.

I did think it was rather funny that you immediately linked to a loony conspiracy site to back up your point, though.

 

[quadraginta]

What are the odds of getting a false positive result in an HIV test?

Apparently high enough so that the doctor administering the test told Knox not to be concerned until they did follow up testing.

At least that's what she claimed. We do seem to have some reason to doubt her veracity, though.

 

[shuttlt]

What are the odds of getting a false positive result in an HIV test?

Anecdotally, my brother went to teach English in South Korea a couple of years ago. All the teachers entering the country in his group got an aids test. Three tested positive in the first test only for it to come back negative a few days later. There were in the low tens of teachers in the group. Make of this what you will.

 

[Fulcanelli]

And it also says this in your Wiki article:

Interpreting antibody tests
ELISA testing alone cannot be used to diagnose HIV, even if the test suggests a high probability that antibody to HIV-1 is present. In the United States, such ELISA results are not reported as "positive" unless confirmed by a Western Blot.
The ELISA antibody tests were developed to provide a high level of confidence that donated blood was NOT infected with HIV. It is therefore not possible to conclude that blood rejected for transfusion because of a positive ELISA antibody test is in fact infected with HIV. Sometimes, retesting the donor in several months will produce a negative ELISA antibody test. This is why a confirmatory Western Blot is always used before reporting a "positive" HIV test result.
Rare false positive results due to factors unrelated to HIV exposure are found more often with the ELISA test than with the Western Blot. False positives may be associated with medical conditions such as recent acute illnesses and allergies. A rash of false positive tests in the fall of 1991 was initially blamed on the influenza vaccines used during that flu season, but further investigation traced the cross-reactivity to several relatively non-specific test kits.[18] A false positive result does not indicate a condition of significant risk to health. When the ELISA test is combined with Western Blot, the rate of false positives is extremely low, and diagnostic accuracy is very high (see below).
HIV antibody tests are highly sensitive, meaning they react preferentially with HIV antibodies, but not all positive or inconclusive HIV ELISA tests mean the person is infected by HIV. Risk history, and clinical judgement should be included in the assessment, and a confirmation test (Western blot) should be administered. An individual with an inconclusive test should be re-tested at a later date.

This emphasises the point I was making in regard to the type of kit they used being a possible factor.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I've insinuated nothing - I guess you're rather defensive about the issue if you think I have.

I did think it was rather funny that you immediately linked to a loony conspiracy site to back up your point, though.

Certain posters do that here quite often...linking to places such as Science Spheres and the like...

 

[shuttlt]

Certain posters do that here quite often...linking to places such as Science Spheres and the like...

You ask for it..... WHALE.TO!!!

Neither of the "HIV-antibody" tests -- the Elisa or the Western Blot -- has ever been properly validated, which means that no one knows what their results mean. The tests are chemical reactions to antigens, which are substances that provoke an immune response. Many dozens of conditions can produce a positive result on these tests, including drug abuse, flu vaccinations, past infection with malaria, pregnancy, and liver disease. Nevertheless, physicians still use these worthless tests, assume that positive results mean HIV infection, and give their patients doom-diagnoses of "HIV-positive" or "AIDS"

 

[Fulcanelli]

Anecdotally, my brother went to teach English in South Korea a couple of years ago. All the teachers entering the country in his group got an aids test. Three tested positive in the first test only for it to come back negative a few days later. There were in the low tens of teachers in the group. Make of this what you will.

Thank you Shuttit.

I think we can put the conspiracy theories and moral outrage surrounding Amanda's HIV test firmly ro bed now

 

[Fulcanelli]

You ask for it..... WHALE.TO!!!

Hey, they must be right on that site...after all, they've all got Ph.D's and so can't be wrong, just ask halides1

 

[Fulcanelli]

Yet another loony FOA site:

http://www.saveprincessamanda.com/

Amanda certainly attracts them

 

[shuttlt]

Hey, they must be right on that site...after all, they've all got Ph.D's and so can't be wrong, just ask halides1

Whale.to is a really fun site. Run by a pig farmer (not that there is anything wrong with being a pig farmer). It's kind of an object lesson in what happens if you start with a wrong idea and then look for confirmation putting everything else down to evil conspiracies. Anybody who things it means a thing to be able to produce people with Phd's who agree with you should definately give it the once over.

 

[Dan O.]

Dan O., we're all still waiting for you to reveal to us the secret contents of the images. As per your request, I rotated slide 17 to the left, and slide 66 to the right.

Until you show penitence you will not be rewarded.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

News reports about the HIV test and Nadeau's fiction

To all,

From the Guardian about her testimony
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/12/amanda-knox-meredith-kercher-murder-trial
“She had written about her seven lovers in her prison diary only after she was mistakenly told she was HIV positive ¬following a prison blood test.
‘I was crying, thinking I cannot have children,’ she said of the two weeks before she was told she was negative.”

From the Guardian by John Hooper
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/04/two-faces-of-amanda-knox
“So many were taken aback to learn that, by the time she was arrested at the age of 20, Knox had had sex with seven men. They were less outraged by how this information was obtained: Knox was told in prison she was HIV-positive and asked to write a list of her lovers. Before she was told that a mistake had been made, the list was passed to investigators, one of whom passed it to a journalist.”

From the Seattle Times
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008120524_amandaknox17m0.html
“Most recently, media reports in Europe, based on leaked information, said Knox admitted having sex with seven men in less than two months in Italy. But the stories were wrong: Knox, told by a prison doctor she had tested positive for HIV, actually had listed all her life's sex partners. ‘Please oh please let it not be true,’ she wrote in her diary. ‘I don't want to die.’ It turned out to be a false positive.”

From Newsweek, Barbie Nadeau
http://www.newsweek.com/id/146214
“And by her own account in a prison diary leaked to the media, she details her sexual escapades with at least seven men she'd been with in her three months in Italy before her arrest. She even wrote that she might have HIV and then she uses a process of elimination to narrow down who might have given it to her.”

I have spoken with a couple of doctors about HIV testing. One said that a positive ELISA test should not be reported until confirmed by the Western. Another said that a positive ELISA should only be reported before knowing the results of the Western under rare circumstances and then only with counseling.

I stand by my previous comment on the matter.

Chris

 

[shuttlt]

But does any of this HIV stuff really matter? When you get told what when may well vary from country to country. Perhaps the US handles it better than the Europeans, or the Italians. Not that it's Utopia, but in South Korea they certainly reveal initial positive results.

If this is part of a conspiracy, it's surely a fringe aspect of it and doesn't look like being the chink that causes the whole thing to come crashing down.

 

[Kermit]

Dan O.'s Wild Goose Chase

Until you show penitence you will not be rewarded.

Heck, Dan O., while trying to run away from your accusation that the Italian authorities had committed illegalities during Amanda's questioning, as confirmed - according to you - by the supreme court sentence, you had been tantalizing all readers here with some special observations in two slides of one of the powerpoints which it seemed that you were going to reveal to us at some point.

Some of us have tried to guess at what you see which is so significant in those slides.

Maybe there's nothing at all, and it was just a diversionary tactic so that you wouldn't have to deal with your accusations.
===================================

I'll make a bet: I'll bet that you were convinced that the "folded sweater" (a possible identification which I had made, but correct or incorrect is neither here nor there) in slide 17 is actually the pedestal of the sink in slide 66.

And also, that the "bent fingers" in slide 17 are actually the folds in the clear plastic toiletry bag of Amanda which she used to store her personal vibrator.

Well, if that's what you thought, you're wrong.

If you look at the lines which the floor tiles mark, you'll see that they meet the "folded sweater" and the "bow" of the floor pedestal at different points and different angles. Idem ref. the bent fingers and the clear plastic case.

Here's Dan O.'s Wild Goose Chase:


Relation of Items in Bathroom:

 

[Jungle Jim]

Folks, this thread is dying a slow death. Most posts these days are about: (a) topics that have been gone over more than once; (b) topics that have no bearing whats-so-ever on the case; or (c) posts that serve no purpose other than just base name calling.

I suggest that when the translated version of the judges report is available, a new thread be started. The major benefit of this would be to attract other JREF members who might have an interest in the subject but don't want to wade through a 150 page thread.

 

[shuttlt]

Good point Kermit. We need to objects. One that the tiles run along the side of and one that the tiles hit at 45 degrees. Tricky.