The [UK-US] Special Relationship is dead

[funk de fino]

I'm not claiming it is different.

Fail. Obama has not stabbed anyone in the back eh? America's policy on Islas Malvinas has not changed a jot. Undermined my arse.

 

[Ziggurat]

Fail. Obama has not stabbed anyone in the back eh? America's policy on Islas Malvinas has not changed a jot. Undermined my arse.

Edit: I think I understand you better now.

So basically, you're saying it wasn't a stab in the back, it was a stab in the front.

 

[Darat]

I'm not claiming it is different.

Now utterly bewildered. You said:

....Hillary Clinton's recent statements about the Falkland Islands was a major diplomatic betrayal of the UK.​

How was her expressing the same policy that the USA has been expressing for decades, and even expressing it when our country was being invaded, a "major diplomatic betrayal of the UK" - it was just business as usual for the USA. SO how can a public re-statement of the position the USA has made clear for decades be described as a "major diplomatic betrayal"?

 

[funk de fino]

Edit: I think I understand you better now.

So basically, you're saying it wasn't a stab in the back, it was a stab in the front.

It was not a stabbing at all. Regardless of how much bluster you have to cover your false claim.

Utterly pathetic (and predictable)

 

[Ziggurat]

It was not a stabbing at all. Regardless of how much bluster you have to cover your false claim.

Utterly pathetic (and predictable)

Wow. I really wasn't expecting such vitriol from you over the fact that you don't agree with how I interpret an event. I'm sorry that you feel the need to attack me in this manner.

 

[Architect]

Well, we were pissed at both the French and the English. And we already had all those nice propaganda posters against the English made up in 1776. So hey, why change that, right?

I've no objection to you being pissed off at the English, hell 5m of my fellow countrymen do it regularly, but I think you want to brush up on your history there. I think you'll find it was the British you had a beef with.

 

[Rolfe]

.... no great mischief if they fall?

Rolfe.

 

[funk de fino]

Wow. I really wasn't expecting such vitriol from you over the fact that you don't agree with how I interpret an event. I'm sorry that you feel the need to attack me in this manner.

Making stuff up and not being able to support it. That is not interpreting.

Still cannot show Obama doing anything on this one then? The frankly disgusting attitudes of many in the US towards the troubles in Northern Ireland was a worse stab in the back.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

Still cannot show Obama doing anything on this one then? The frankly disgusting attitudes of many in the US towards the troubles in Northern Ireland was a worse stab in the back.

I think if the UK - USA "special relationship" could survive the many years of USA official government policy of, in effect, supporting terrorists trying to murder me and other UK citizens their decades long view that the issue of the Falklands should be solved by negotiation is hardly going to measure on any scale of "diplomatic betrayal"!

 

[Lurker]

You live in the UK, I can't believe you haven't heard the arguments. And it's a betrayal because there was no reason for us to take the position she did to undermine the UK's position. We have no direct stake in the outcome, Argentina is less important to us and less friendly than the UK,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupi_oil_field

 

[Ziggurat]

Making stuff up and not being able to support it. That is not interpreting.

I didn't make anything up, funk.

The frankly disgusting attitudes of many in the US towards the troubles in Northern Ireland was a worse stab in the back.

Yes it was. Since I neither claimed this was the first, or the worst, thing we've ever done to stab the UK in the back, I'm not sure your point. You're clearly upset with me, but it's not because of Northern Ireland. Frankly, I'm at a loss to explain your behavior.

 

[funk de fino]

I didn't make anything up, funk.

Yes, you did Zigg.

Obama has done nothing and you have brought nothing.

Yes it was. Since I neither claimed this was the first, or the worst, thing we've ever done to stab the UK in the back, I'm not sure your point. You're clearly upset with me, but it's not because of Northern Ireland. Frankly, I'm at a loss to explain your behavior.

I dont like people who tell lies.

 

[Ziggurat]

Yes, you did Zigg.

Obama has done nothing and you have brought nothing.

Hillary Clinton made a statement during a press conference. As Secretary of State, her job is to carry out Obama's foreign policy. Since no correction has been made, it is safe to assume that the position, as well as the willingness to make it public, are indeed Obama's policy. Go ahead and disagree with me about how to characterize what happened, but something definitely happened. The Obama administration did something, and yes, it's perfectly acceptable to shorthand to say "Obama" when talking about actions of his administration.

I dont like people who tell lies.

Cut the crap, funk. This isn't about a lie, because 1) it's not a lie, and 2) nobody around here patrols for every lie they can find. Something else about it pissed you off, and if you're not willing to talk about it, fine. But you're not going to get any satisfaction from taking this approach. I respect you, funk, or at least I did. If you're willing to talk about what's really got you upset, I'm willing to listen, but just calling me a liar isn't going to cut it.

 

[funk de fino]

Hillary Clinton made a statement during a press conference. As Secretary of State, her job is to carry out Obama's foreign policy. Since no correction has been made, it is safe to assume that the position, as well as the willingness to make it public, are indeed Obama's policy. Go ahead and disagree with me about how to characterize what happened, but something definitely happened. The Obama administration did something, and yes, it's perfectly acceptable to shorthand to say "Obama" when talking about actions of his administration.

Obama did nothing then. Guilty by association for something that was not even a stab in the back in the first place. Only the anti Obama crowd could magic that one up.

Bolded - no it's not.

If Obama came right out and told the UK not to defend itself if Argentina attacked or joined Argentina in any conflict then that would have been stab in the back. This is a non change of previous policy.

Cut the crap, funk. This isn't about a lie, because 1) it's not a lie, and 2) nobody around here patrols for every lie they can find. Something else about it pissed you off, and if you're not willing to talk about it, fine. But you're not going to get any satisfaction from taking this approach. I respect you, funk, or at least I did. If you're willing to talk about what's really got you upset, I'm willing to listen, but just calling me a liar isn't going to cut it.

Your claim is false. The reason it is false is what also annoys me. What if this had happened in 2004?

And lets not forget, this was your post in reply to a comment I made on Bush and Blair.

Which is ironic, given that it's Obama who is stabbing the UK in the back.

He is not stabbing anyone.

 

[funk de fino]

The Obama administration did something, and yes, it's perfectly acceptable to shorthand to say "Obama" when talking about actions of his administration

here's one for you:-

True story - "Dick Cheney shot Harry Whittington during a hunting accident"

Ziggurat spin - "Bush deliberately tried to murder Harry Whittington with a shotgun"

 

[Ziggurat]

Obama did nothing then. Guilty by association

I really thought you were better than this, and I'm quite disappointed to be proven wrong. His secretary of state made a public statement of the administration's policy. Obama is responsible for that. Whatever you think of that policy, that's not "guilt by association". But since this is the level of discourse you've chosen to engage in, there's really nothing further that I can say. You're not interested in a discussion, you're interested in a rant. Have at it, funk. I'm not interested.

 

[zooterkin]

I really thought you were better than this, and I'm quite disappointed to be proven wrong. His secretary of state made a public statement of the administration's policy. Obama is responsible for that. Whatever you think of that policy, that's not "guilt by association".

You're missing the point; you described this as a stab in the back. But the policy has not changed, so Obama cannot be accused of actively doing anything. How can, "USA continues with the same policy it has had for the last 30+ years" be described as "it's Obama who is stabbing the UK in the back"?

 

[Ziggurat]

You're missing the point; you described this as a stab in the back. But the policy has not changed

I'm not missing the point at all, zooterkin. funk is claiming that I lied, not that I'm wrong. And the logic he uses to justify that accusation (guilt by association, his absurd comparison of a deliberate statement of policy to an accident) just make no sense. Go ahead and conclude I'm wrong, at this point I really don't care enough to argue the point further. But I would hope you could at least understand why funk's accusations are not justified. Something has crawled under his skin, something has made this very personal to him, and I have no clue what. But I'm no longer interested in trying to find out what.

 

[funk de fino]

I'm not missing the point at all, zooterkin. funk is claiming that I lied, not that I'm wrong. And the logic he uses to justify that accusation (guilt by association, his absurd comparison of a deliberate statement of policy to an accident) just make no sense. Go ahead and conclude I'm wrong, at this point I really don't care enough to argue the point further. But I would hope you could at least understand why funk's accusations are not justified. Something has crawled under his skin, something has made this very personal to him, and I have no clue what. But I'm no longer interested in trying to find out what.

You either lied or you are wrong. Make a choice.

 

[Ziggurat]

You either lied or you are wrong. Make a choice.

You don't get out of it that easy, funk. YOU claimed I was lying and not wrong. And you did so with no justification, and resorted to bizarre contortions that strain credulity to try to justify your accusation. You shifted the debate away from the facts of the case to the question of my honesty. And now you want to retreat to those grounds without admitting that your accusation was baseless? No, funk. That isn't good enough.