Merged Migraine Test, VFF, and LightinDarkness

All I need is one Skeptic to try the method on who then says that it doesn't work because there was no improvement in their migraines and this claim is falsified.


Anyone with half a brain reading this thread and anyone who is the slightest bit skeptical of the outrageous claims made here today, would surely know that it takes more than an epic fail for these outrageous claims to be falsified by VFF.
 
If I am beginning to attempt a migraine healing, but then before I begin I say "No, I can not do this today. I am far too tired, I am sorry, I can not try the method right now. Can we get together at a later time when I feel that I can try to do this?" [trial 3 of the kidney detection test was such]. Or if immediately after attempting the treatment and before receiving any feedback I say, "This did not feel right. I do not think I was able to do what I tried to do, so we will have to try again, because it didn't work this time." [trial 1 of the kidney detection test].

What we want is, "This went really well. I have full confidence that what I just did represents the best of what I could do, and if this does not work, then I will be fully convinced that I can not do this and the claim is falsified." [trial 2 was such].
Wow, post-hoc dodging before the "treatments", that is impressive.

You have just demonstrated why you will never admit your claim is falsified, no matter how many failed trials/studies/att. treatments you do. You will always rationalise the misses away, and spin the no greater than chance hits into something worth investigating.
 
Wow, post-hoc dodging before the "treatments", that is impressive.

You have just demonstrated why you will never admit your claim is falsified, no matter how many failed trials/studies/att. treatments you do. You will always rationalise the misses away, and spin the no greater than chance hits into something worth investigating.


Come now Agatha, even the most Arcturian woo is only human - needing to justify failure before they begin. Other not so Arcturian skeptics call it shifting the goal posts. :p
 
[nasty insinuations about another poster snipped]


Why not volunteer for a free half an hour head and neck massage? I will buy you a cup of coffee for your trouble, I am sure the whole experience would be quite pleasant. I happen to be rather good at massage. The worst thing that could happen is that your migraines become better, and at best it doesn't work and you can say all you want about it being a falsified claim. And no, I did not get those mixed up. I know what would make this person happy. :D

[more nastiness snipped]

Caffeine is a well-known migraine trigger. It certainly triggers migraines in me if I have too much or at the wrong time of day/the month/whatever. Buying the subject a cup of coffee would, alone, be enough to ensure that the results of your silly little 'test' would be meaningless. You really haven't thought this through, have you?
 
If I were inclined to such things, you would not find me in a Skeptical Forum.

Anita is talking about being a huckster here

I would be out there practicing illegit psychic healings

Anyone heard of Alenara the Breatharian?

and charging big money for them and getting away with it, and I would show none of the concern for legal matters, liability, and testing those claims, as I do here.

Anita thought she had gotten away with telling people they did not need to eat. Anita did not and does not show concern for the outright lies she told her audience as Alenara the Breatharian nor for the outrageous lies she tells here.
Nor does Anita demonstrate any concern for any possible legal matters or liability as Alenara the Breatharian or VFF the Migraine Healer.


It is a tragedy that you will attack the one and only who has come across this issue of woo healing

Does anyone else think Anita is talking about herself being the one and only? And is it a tragedy?

and is willing to produce an example of falsified such woo and to use this as a valuable learning experience and teaching tool about claims and beliefs of woo,

Wow, wonder what Anita has to say about Alenara the Breatharian's woo?Has she ever done a study on Alenara? And aren't we lucky we now have VFF the Migraine Healer? All rise and hail!

meanwhile there are fraud practitioners out there, many of which you could find and challenge,

Anita is fully aware of Mr Lancaster's site stopsylvia.com and duh, I am of the belief skeptics are aware of the frauds out there, including Anita Ikonen.

but you choose to attack me, and when your arguments fail,

by arguments fail, Anita means she has stuck her fingers in her ears and squeezed her eyes shut

since I am not what you think I should be, you go to silly accusations such as liar or attention seeking.

Since Anita has joined at least 3 skeptical organisations that I know of, I expect her to act like a skeptic. Well, at least talk like one. Also I expect her to put up or shut up. Silly I know.

snippety doodah

And this has got nothing to do with me.

Uh huh, Anita really has nothing to do with any of this, she is a very reluctant participant.

It is either about those people who suffer tremendously, or it is about skepticism and to produce a documented case of falsified healing woo, depending on the outcome.

Well, I have no idea what this means, but then I am not a science student.Can anyone help me out with translation please?

Either way it is for a greater cause. And you are invited to be part of it.

Note that you wont get any credit because Anita believes that it is she should be a recipient of the Nobel Prize.

Find someone, perhaps yourself, who has migraines. Set something up for me.

Do you plebs hear Her Highness?

This is easy to test and if it does not work that will be obvious.

Yeah course it is, as easy as it was to test the kidneys. And that was a friggin obvious fail.

I don't come here for attention, I come here for support and suggestions.

I think, Princess, that we plebs shall be the judge of that.
 
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VisionFromFeeling said:
...And since you brought it up, if one of you could contact this man whose claim this is to confirm that he is in fact an actual person and that he presents this claim, whether he is a paid actor or genuine.

Interesting choice of words...

How absolutely rude of you to make that assumption. If I were inclined to such things, you would not find me in a Skeptical Forum. I would be out there practicing illegit psychic healings and charging big money for them and getting away with it...

Anita, of course, believes that it is okay to con people as long as she doesn't charge money for it.

Mind you, she did contact that migraine support group...

...and I would show none of the concern for legal matters, liability, and testing those claims, as I do here.
This is a lie. She went out of her way to misrepresent her proposed behavior to the massage therapy boards in two states, just to circumvent any laws or regulations that might prohibit her from carrying out her 'study', 'test', whatever she is calling it this time. For the same reason, she avoids contacting any state medical board about her use of "vision from feeling". It's a matter of "What they don't know won't hurt them me." She harassed LightInDarkness. She harassed Lost Angeles to the point that LA resorted to publicly asking her to stop - and she still kept on.

Anita's "concern" for the legalities and proprieties is as much a sham as all her other claims.

Help me out here...
Why in the world should anyone here help her out? They've tried that, and got **** upon.

I come here for support and suggestions.
No, she doesn't. That's just the way she likes to paint it for herself. She comes here for attention.

VisionFromFeeling said:
GeeMack would you care to provide supporting evidence of your claims that I am a liar or a fraud?

Affidavits, anyone? I've got them.

Did I mention I do have affidavits?

Did I mention I have affidavits?

Affidavits, anyone?

VisionFromFeeling said:
I have only had three healing experiences.
VisionFromFeeling said:
In each of the only two prior cases neither of the recipients of the treatment...
VisionFromFeeling said:
The recipient of the one past case of migraine treatment experienced a significant improvement...
VisionFromFeeling said:
In both of the two past cases, a significant improvement in their pain condition was experienced immediately.
 
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I just want a fail-or-proceed kind of protocol, ...

Which is what the IIG gave you regarding your missing kidney detection claim.

You failed that preliminary protocol, you were incapable of demonstrating even a hint of that particular claimed ability.

On your own site you said: "and if I fail the test I will be proud to announce that the claim of medical perceptions through extrasensory perception is falsified."
But then, you refused to announce that particular claim as falsified.

Considering your conduct surrounding your previous claim, you do not deserve any help from here.

Also, you have not shown anything to be in need of being "studied" or "tested" as far as any of your many claims is concerned, you have not produced any data at all.

Your claims amount to ....... nothing.
 
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farenque said:
Visionfromfeeling said:
It is either about those people who suffer tremendously, or it is about skepticism and to produce a documented case of falsified healing woo, depending on the outcome.
Well, I have no idea what this means, but then I am not a science student.Can anyone help me out with translation please?

I believe she's saying the purpose of this examination is to find a new cure for migraines, that will help millions, and as such, we all have a moral responsibility to help her. And in the case where her treatment doesn't work, she'll immediately drop her claim, happy that she can now be certain that particular claim was false. (And move on to the next one. I'm guessing either muscle pains or indigestion).
 
Brilliant example, I'm glad someone in here is thinking rather than just arguing by trying to attack with personal insults. I hope you do stay, I'm sure you can be one of the most conductive of critical thinkers here. This is a very intelligent comment, unfortunately I am the one who would be acting like the pigeon, not the man.

I wonder if you realize that your response was very typical for a person lacking empathy and used to manipulating people? You ignored parts of my message, confuscated the point I made and topped it off by praising me in what seems to me an attempt to "win me over". You are using strategies that work well against people of lesser intelligence, especially online. But they won't work on a skeptical forum. Unless, of course, your goal is simply attention. That you probably will get, but only inside the forum.

I do feel that the visualization is something silly like that, however I would still like to test that to convince myself that it does not work and to settle my curiosity. The reason for that is that as soon as I had finished my visualization, the man said the compression across his forehead was gone. He did not know what I was doing, and he says this symptom of compression has never receded before. So, even if it is as silly as pigeons, in this case I would like to try it out.

Do you really believe that a failed test would convince you? And couldn't you just find a friend or colleague to try your massage on? There are plenty of people with migraines. Heck, if all you want is a test, you could go to a believer forum. I'm sure you'd find a willing guinea pig there.

I invite any of you to step up and be willing to e-mail and/or call to this person and have a friendly but skeptical chat with him about what took place and how he came to interpret that and why.

So what happened to the affidavit? Why don't you yourself call the man and ask him to write one, then post it? Why should we do your work for you?

I have never made that claim. I do not believe that any of this works, yet I want to confirm that, just in case. If it works, I have found a way to help migraine sufferers, and if it fails, I have an interesting case of falsified woo to write about. I would be happy with either outcome.

If this is indeed your M.O. then I'm certain that in the past you've done similar tests and found out a claimed ability of yours didn't work. Could you provide some examples of times when you admitted you had been wrong?

We have no evidence that I can not offer an effective treatment against migraines.

We also don't have evidence that learning Swahili can't cure migraines. Or having a herring in your pocket, or tap-dancing. Yet no one is claiming we should invest our time to finding such evidence. Why? Because there's no reason to expect they would have any effect. Just a there's no reason to expect your "treatment" would have.

All we have is one man who insists that it not only worked, but that it worked really well. If you have an understanding of the scientific method, you would encourage a simple test where the same method is attempted again and offered to demonstrate that it does not work.

No, I would not. The belief of a single man, untrained in the scientific method is, as I stated before, worth about a much as that of a pigeon. Whether his migraines really stopped or not, it proves absolutely nothing. The improvement could have been caused by the weather of that day, by something he ate, or a million other things, most likely one being simple chance. So the man's testimony isn't sufficient grounds to try any further exams, unless you believe you can actually do something to people's brains. If you, as you've said, think it's silly, then there's no point to this whole thing.
 
Not that I would ever advocate anybody practicing medicine without a license, but in light of this:
If I am beginning to attempt a migraine healing, but then before I begin I say "No, I can not do this today. I am far too tired, I am sorry, I can not try the method right now. Can we get together at a later time when I feel that I can try to do this?" [trial 3 of the kidney detection test was such]. Or if immediately after attempting the treatment and before receiving any feedback I say, "This did not feel right. I do not think I was able to do what I tried to do, so we will have to try again, because it didn't work this time." [trial 1 of the kidney detection test].

What we want is, "This went really well. I have full confidence that what I just did represents the best of what I could do, and if this does not work, then I will be fully convinced that I can not do this and the claim is falsified." [trial 2 was such].
shouldn't you just request that all migraine test volunteers be white and slender? ;) At least cut those possible reasons for "non-success" off at the pass.

Also, if you've only done this once, how will you recognize when it does or doesn't feel right? All your first statement confirms for anybody who was possibly giving you the benefit of the doubt is that you will find a reason to explain your failure and then say your claim is worthy of further study. ("I knew I wasn't curing him, but now I know my healing doesn't work on somebody who's eaten within the past half hour.....")
 
A lot of posts moved to AAH for various breaches of the Members' Membership Agreement. This has also resulted in several suspension of varying lengths (some folk have more "form" for this than others). Any further breaches of the Membership Agreement in this thread will result in an immediate suspension of a 1 week (minimum).

If you cannot post within the constraints of your Membership Agreement do not post.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat
 
So correct me if I'm wrong here... VfF now claims she has the paranormal ability to...wait for migraines to go away.

Sounds like my ability to cause any particular episode of Gilligan's Island to eventually be shown on TV just by thinking about it for a few minutes each day for a few months...

I also predict that the majority of intelligent, educated, good-looking, and otherwise just plain cool people won't believe that this ability is real.

;)
 
Sounds like my ability to cause any particular episode of Gilligan's Island to eventually be shown on TV just by thinking about it for a few minutes each day for a few months...

I also predict that the majority of intelligent, educated, good-looking, and otherwise just plain cool people won't believe that this ability is real.

;)

You'd better hope so, because, if those intelligent, educated, good looking, and otherwise just plain cool people did believe that that ability is real, they'd beat the stuffing out of you for keeping that idiotic show on television. :D

Stupidest show ever...
 
I have no suggestion for how to deal with the risk that what I do would make a person worse. Although it sounds dreadful to say so, all I can say is that I find it unlikely that my method makes a person worse. It is like throwing ice onto fire and worrying about whether the ice might make the fire hotter. What I do is soothing, and I can not imagine it making things worse. I also see no way to test this without human subjects.


If Anita wants more "subjects", I think she should marry a King.
It made me feel kinda ill to see all those people lined up for her perusal and pretension of "detecting" missing kidneys at the IIG test.

The above post of Anita's just illustrates her contempt for the wellbeing and safety of any migraine sufferer. It also illustrates that should you volunteer for her "test", you are to be used and possibly abused, all for the glory of Anita. Absolutely sickening.

Why the JREF allows this kind of solicitation by Anita, or indeed anyone, on their boards is beyond me.
It appears Anita is being duly aided and abetted in her recruitment drive for "test subjects".
 
How can an experimenter already looking for subjects without a proper protocol?

How can the experimenter be the thing being tested in the first place? We discussed this here over a year ago. She's actually one of the subjects, and somebody else needs run the whole shebang. As long as she's designing tests and evaluating data, it's all worthless except for her own gratification.
 
How absolutely rude of you to make that assumption. If I were inclined to such things, you would not find me in a Skeptical Forum. I would be out there practicing illegit psychic healings and charging big money for them and getting away with it, and I would show none of the concern for legal matters, liability, and testing those claims, as I do here. It is a tragedy that you will attack the one and only who has come across this issue of woo healing and is willing to produce an example of falsified such woo and to use this as a valuable learning experience and teaching tool about claims and beliefs of woo, meanwhile there are fraud practitioners out there, many of which you could find and challenge, but you choose to attack me, and when your arguments fail, since I am not what you think I should be, you go to silly accusations such as liar or attention seeking.

I am here because a man is totally convinced that something I did led him to go from 12 migraines a month to 2. And there was no waiting involved. And won't one of you offer to give him a call and talk to him? Find out what he thinks happened, and why he thinks it is something I did? Help me out here, and stop trying to end my curiosity to investigate this by trying to insult and hurt me. I do listen to your arguments, but do make them good ones and not personal insults against me.

And this has got nothing to do with me. It is either about those people who suffer tremendously, or it is about skepticism and to produce a documented case of falsified healing woo, depending on the outcome. Either way it is for a greater cause. And you are invited to be part of it. Find someone, perhaps yourself, who has migraines. Set something up for me. This is easy to test and if it does not work that will be obvious. I don't come here for attention, I come here for support and suggestions.

GEt offended all you want, but i call a spade a spade. The traits you are displaying are that of typical hucksters. If this wasn't about you, you wouldn't be here feigning offense, or heck, you just wouldn't have replied to me. I didn't insult the guy, i insulted your huckster esque traits that i have observed.

Btw i do get migraines, and unfortunately pain killers simply do not work for me ( yes i do get a feeling from high end ones, but nothing that would help pain, or even be entertaining as a recreational activity.), but i don't see how across the world you could help as your claim seems to be that you can do this in person. ( i refuse to buy into the claim that your not really claiming it. If you wern't i wouldn't know about it.)

If you don't want people to think that your simply attention gathering, then talk to people in pm's to ask advice. Heck, i promise you any advice you ask for in a civil, courteous, and timely manner should you take this option. And give my express permission to post my pm's so that people can see if i am bsing or not.

Ball is in your court.
 

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