It's a Civil War: What We Do Now

[BeAChooser]

http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/23/ob...kha-dalmia.html?boxes=opinionschannellighttop

Resisting ObamaCare, Gandhi Style

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President Barack Obama came into office promising hope and change. But he might get more change than he hoped for. By foisting ObamaCare on a deeply unwilling country he might have set the stage for the largest civil disobedience movement since the civil rights era, which, if it plays its cards right, could undo his legislation and his legacy.

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To this end, the perpetrators of ObamaCare must be defeated in November and 2012. But right now it is entirely appropriate for Senate Republicans to stall the reconciliation process as much as possible. They are right in calling every point of order that they can--if only to call attention to the bill's manifest corruption. Likewise, the 30-plus states that are issuing sovereignty resolutions and exploring ballot initiatives that would protect their residents from Uncle Sam's coverage diktat are on the right track. Even if these efforts are ultimately thrown out in court because federal law trumps state law, they will make a powerful statement against the coercive nature of ObamaCare.

But the lawsuits that have a shot at sticking in court are the ones that various attorney generals around the country are preparing under the Constitution's commerce clause. This clause gives the federal government expansive powers to regulate interstate commercial activity. But it has never before been invoked to force Americans to purchase a product as a condition of lawful residence in this country. This crosses a line that might well make five Supreme Court justices balk.

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For opponents of ObamaCare that time is Dec. 31, 2013. That's when the individual mandate will go into effect. If ObamaCare hasn't been repealed by Congress or nullified in court by then, its opponents would be justified in urging Americans to refuse to buy coverage or pay fines and dare authorities to come after them.

By some estimates, Uncle Sam will need to hire an additional 17,000 IRS agents or so just to enforce the coverage mandate. But even if a few million Americans simultaneously refuse to abide by it, they could easily overwhelm the system. Self-rule or swaraj, Gandhi said, requires a collective understanding of the immense capacity of citizens to "regulate and control" the coercive apparatus of the state through mass nonviolent resistance.

 

[Leif Roar]

By foisting ObamaCare on a deeply unwilling country he might have set the stage for the largest civil disobedience movement since the civil rights era, which, if it plays its cards right, could undo his legislation and his legacy.

Civil disobedience? How? Refuse to get sick?

 

[BeAChooser]

How dishonest of you to omit that many were against it because it doesn't go far enough.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...arch_2010/55_favor_repeal_of_health_care_bill

Just before the House of Representatives passed sweeping health care legislation last Sunday, 41% of voters nationwide favored the legislation while 54% were opposed. Now that President Obama has signed the legislation into law, most voters want to see it repealed.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey, conducted on the first two nights after the president signed the bill, shows that 55% favor repealing the legislation. Forty-two percent (42%) oppose repeal. Those figures include 46% who Strongly Favor repeal and 35% who Strongly Oppose it. In terms of Election 2010, 52% say they’d vote for a candidate who favors repeal over one who does not. Forty-one percent (41%) would cast their vote for someone who opposes repeal.

 

[Upchurch]

Civil disobedience? How? Refuse to get sick?

...or injured.

And if you do get sick or injured, instead of going into the hospital, make sure you lie down in front of the hospital to deny those who don't give a about crazy wing-nut values from getting the care they need.

That'll win the people over.

 

[joobz]

And just how were they to do that when Obama and the democrats shut them out of discussions about the bill very early last year? You're deceiving yourself if you think for one minute that democrats honestly wanted to work with republicans to *better* the bill. You're even deceiving yourself as to the real purpose of the bill (in democrat leadership eyes).

Well, that's a big heaping spoon full of crazy.

Republicans have only demonstrated their desires to stop the bill entirely. They wanted to show the democrats as ineffectual. they failed.
Conservatives in congress have only themselves to blame if there ideas didn't make it in.

My favorite part: The last minute requests to waste tax payer dollars by scraping the entire bill and starting from scratch. Why not participate in the beginning?

 

[IDB87]

...or injured.

And if you do get sick or injured, instead of going into the hospital, make sure you lie down in front of the hospital to deny those who don't give a about crazy wing-nut values from getting the care they need.

That'll win the people over.

Actually, that would be a great way to make a statement. That actually parallels to what Gandhi did, and (oh god, I can't believe the writer tried to make the comparisons) to what people did in the Civil Rights protests.

They won't do that, of course, since they can afford their private health care.

 

[BeAChooser]

And if you do get sick or injured, instead of going into the hospital

Who said anything about doing that?

The rules won't allow you to not treat ANYONE who shows up at that hospital. Even the new rules.

One of the biggest problems with your so-called *insurance* ... is that's not.

Which is why democrat claims the bill will reduce insurance premiums is a outright lie.

Which is why democrat claims the bill will reduce the deficit is a outright lie.

Which is why democrat claims the bill will reduce unemployment is a outright lie.

You can be sure that we'll be tracking all three parameters, and comparing what they do to what democrats claimed would happen, come election time. And this time you're going to find that a lot of conservatives, who previously didn't show that conservatism by anything other than voting, will be out there making sure that every potential voter (especially the independent) is aware of the difference between democrat promises and the harsh reality. Because this is war and the only war to fight a war is confront the enemy.

 

[jimbob]

The "Social Democrat" thing is the funniest to me. Also using post-founding "core values" .

As a Brit who also regards himself as European, the whole idea that Social Democracy is bad is just about as odd as the aversion to the "liberal" word.

 

[IDB87]

Which is why democrat claims the bill will reduce insurance premiums is a outright lie.

Which is why democrat claims the bill will reduce the deficit is a outright lie.

Which is why democrat claims the bill will reduce unemployment is a outright lie.

Which, if true, are good running platforms come November. By that time there could very well be concrete examples of the 'lies' you listed, and the fixes the right has for them.

But, rather than strategize and plan for the upcoming elections, this is their game plan.

 

[joobz]

Who said anything about doing that?

The rules won't allow you to not treat ANYONE who shows up at that hospital. Even the new rules.

One of the biggest problems with your so-called *insurance* ... is that's not.

Which is why democrat claims the bill will reduce insurance premiums is a outright lie.

Which is why democrat claims the bill will reduce the deficit is a outright lie.

Which is why democrat claims the bill will reduce unemployment is a outright lie.

The reason for cost reductions have been explained already. But, of course, you ignore those arguments.

You can be sure that we'll be tracking all three parameters, and comparing what they do to what democrats claimed would happen, come election time.

You are welcome to. Just like I will point out your lies when you make them.
\

 

[djlunacee]

Yes let's have government run health care!!! We need it now, because we know how well they have done with medicaid, medicare, and social security!!!!

I seem to remember how cash for clunkers went broke, yep great program there.

I am no economist by any means, but simple logic tells me that this bill is extremely bad for the economy, they say it will only increase taxes on the wealthy, well those are the people that run businesses and that increase WILL be passed on down the line, eventually coming from the middle and lower levels of income. Thanks...

I believe, this bill was rammed down our throats by the administration for one reason and one reason only, so they can say they got something done, period.

 

[Shalamar]

BaC is on my ignore list, since he seems to think that certain people aren't worth providing Health Care for. He tries to avoid this, however.

And the fact that most of what he says is a lie. If he announced that the sun was rising in the east... I'd be looking to the west to expecting to see the sun there in the AM, and wondering what changed in the Universe.

The only thing BaC seems to be good for, is starting discussion.. Though that usually ends up pointing out where he's inevitably wrong, and where he's been lying, showing where the facts actually are, and not where he wishes them to be.

BaC, and others like him, simply hate the liberals, and all they stand for.. Like wanting people to be healthy and having health Care. GoP = The Party of Death.

 

[Upchurch]

...but simple logic tells me that...

It is never a good idea to apply simple logic to a complex problem.

 

[Shalamar]

Yes let's have government run health care!!! We need it now, because we know how well they have done with medicaid, medicare, and social security!!!!

I seem to remember how cash for clunkers went broke, yep great program there.

I am no economist by any means, but simple logic tells me that this bill is extremely bad for the economy, they say it will only increase taxes on the wealthy, well those are the people that run businesses and that increase WILL be passed on down the line, eventually coming from the middle and lower levels of income. Thanks...

I believe, this bill was rammed down our throats by the administration for one reason and one reason only, so they can say they got something done, period.

Why is the USA the *only* First World country incapable of providing some version of a Universal Health Care system to its People?

I also particularly like how talking to the republicans, trying to get them involved, explaining to the people the health care, and then voting on it to pass... Is 'ramming' it down our throats. Better still when people don't like the bill.. Because it doesn't do enough!

 

[joobz]

Yes let's have government run health care!!! We need it now, because we know how well they have done with medicaid, medicare, and social security!!!!

This is stupid. the Healthcare bill isn't anywhere near government run health care.

I seem to remember how cash for clunkers went broke, yep great program there.

Um, your statement is completely devoid of reality. CAsh for clunkers was highly successful and did what it was intended to do.

http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/1043380_clunkers-program-worked-didnt-hurt-car-sales-study-says

I am no economist by any means, but simple logic tells me that this bill is extremely bad for the economy, they say it will only increase taxes on the wealthy, well those are the people that run businesses and that increase WILL be passed on down the line, eventually coming from the middle and lower levels of income.

Given the fact that your first two statements contradict reality, this entire statement is meaningless.

I believe, this bill was rammed down our throats by the administration for one reason and one reason only, so they can say they got something done, period.

You are welcome to believe what ever you want. However, your beliefs don't change reality.

 

[Leif Roar]

Who said anything about doing that?

Well, so how would you engage in civil disobedience against the health care bill?

 

[BeAChooser]

BaC is on my ignore list

And yet, you keep showing up on my threads. Go figure.

GoP = The Party of Death.

LOL!

DEM = The Party of Lies and Liars?

 

[joobz]

DEM = The Party of Lies and Liars?

You're a democrat?

 

[David Wong]

The only way this thread has any possible substance is if it's saying something other than, "Conservatives should vote for conservatives this November!!!" since that's kind of obvious.

So.... what is it? What was the OP suggesting beyond business as usual?

I don't get it.

 

[Upchurch]

So.... what is it? What was the OP suggesting beyond business as usual?

I don't get it.

"The South shall rise again"?

A little more seriously, I'm perplexed that the wing-nuts are invoking "Civil War" imagery, complete with capitalization, in opposition to a black President. Are they trying to reinforce the stereotype?

Somewhere, there is a conservative marketing VP tearing his hair out over that one. Assuming, that is, he had any after that whole "Tea Bag" mess.