Man Shot Dead at Gun Show.

[GreNME]

That's not irony. (Insert obligatory Inigo Montoya line)

If it happened at a class on firearm safety, that would be irony.

Nope, this counts as irony as well. It may not be irony you appreciate, but it's irony nonetheless.

Brilliant mis-characterization. Nothing like an ignorant comment to make the case against yourself.

Against myself? Pray tell how. Someone brought a loaded gun to a gun show-- a pretty stupid thing to do on its own-- and it resulted in someone getting shot. We don't know any of the details, but would you say the loaded gun entered the gun show accidentally? Of course not: someone openly flouted the restriction, and no true scotsman arguments aside I doubt whomever brought this loaded gun was the only person to do so. Most drivers consider themselves good drivers, but that doesn't mean they don't speed, pass on the right occasionally, and perform 'rolling stops' when they're in a hurry and there's little or no traffic-- all while using the justification that it's okay for them to be loose with the rules because they're a good driver, unlike the idiots who get into accidents. It's a common selection bias that practically everyone has regarding things they identify with or sympathize with, whether it's the gun enthusiast or the dog owner or the parent who swears that their little snowflake wouldn't "do something like that" or the most common example of the car driver who self-identifies as a good, safe driver while agreeing that most drivers out on the road are sloppy, irresponsible, or even dangerous.

Don't mistake that for me being anti-gun or even anti-gun-show. The behavior I'm being critical of is displayed in people who own guns just as much as it's displayed in those who don't own guns. The applicability of my pointing this out, if you want to be particular, is that the failure to acknowledge this self-selection bias keeps the inevitable chronic gun debates going when topics like the above (or the kid who mistook a gun for a Wii controller) crop up.

 

[roger]

Someone brought a loaded gun to a gun show-- a pretty stupid thing to do on its own-- and it resulted in someone getting shot. We don't know any of the details, but would you say the loaded gun entered the gun show accidentally? Of course not: someone openly flouted the restriction, and no true scotsman arguments aside

Okay, we have no evidence of this whatsoever. Initial statements are pretty murky, but it's looking like it was a vendor's gun.

In general, here's how a Tanner gun show is set up: You have a room full of guns. Each gun has a plastic zip tie running through the magazine area so the gun cannot be put in battery.

You have a room full of ammunition. It's just in bags (if reloaded) or boxes. No locks.

So, to end up with a loaded gun in a gun show doesn't require all that much. The door restrictions, even if accompanied by pat downs and electronic wanding, would not stop somebody from loading a gun if they really wantedto. A pocket knife or nail clipper, and a bit of petty theft is all it really takes. Heck, I've read that just slingshotting the gun will often cut the tie

Now, how that vendor's gun ended up in battery is anybody's guess. Every gun is supposed to be inspected by security before the show opens to make sure it has the plastic tie on it. But maybe somebody asked at a vendor's table "do you have an X" and he had one out in his van and brought it in. Maybe somebody cut the tie cable. Maybe somebody maliciously loaded the gun hoping either to get the vendor in trouble (they felt slighted in some way). Maybe somebody intended somebody to get shot. (The story is going is that one guy (teen to early twenties shot his good friend while looking at the weapon from a vendors table, don't know if that is true or not, but it is from somebody who was supposedly at the table). Maybe somebody was looking at the gun, decided to chamber a round they bought earlier for whatever stupid reason (so dear, this is how you load it), and sat it down.

In any case, the door rules doesn't seem to apply if this was a vendor gun that was inspected prior to the show opening. But we don't know yet.

I doubt whomever brought this loaded gun was the only person to do so.

Doubt no longer People were talking about Tanner gun shows on a gun forum I frequent a few weeks ago. Many refuse to go to the show because they ban concealed carry. Others said essentially "how would they know if I don't tell them". People are carrying.

Just like they are carrying beside you in the bank, at the grocery store, on the street, etc.


edit: I'm racking my memory - I don't think I recall seeing plastic ties on a lot of the revolvers and many other pieces - I do remember them on a few of the dealers that I know, but I don't remember them on a lot of the private tables. I'm not asserting they weren't there, just that I don't remember seeing them. Tanner is SOL if so.

 

[roger]

Someone brought a loaded gun to a gun show-- a pretty stupid thing to do on its own-- and it resulted in someone getting shot. We don't know any of the details, but would you say the loaded gun entered the gun show accidentally? Of course not: someone openly flouted the restriction, and no true scotsman arguments aside

Okay, we have no evidence of this whatsoever. Initial statements are pretty murky, but it's looking like it was a vendor's gun.

In general, here's how a gun show is set up: You have a room full of guns. Each gun has a plastic zip tie running through the magazine area or around the frame by the revolver wheel so the gun cannot be put in battery.

You have a room full of ammunition. It's just in bags (if reloaded) or boxes. No locks.

So, to end up with a loaded gun in a gun show doesn't require all that much. The door restrictions, even if accompanied by pat downs and electronic wanding, would not stop somebody from loading a gun if they really needed to. A pocket knife or nail clipper, and a bit of petty theft is all it really takes.

Now, how that vendor's gun ended up in battery is anybody's guess. Every gun is supposed to be inspected by security before the show opens to make sure it has the plastic tie on it. But maybe somebody asked at a vendor's table "do you have an X" and he had one out in his van and brought it in. Maybe somebody cut the tie cable. Maybe somebody maliciously loaded the gun hoping either to get the vendor in trouble (they felt slighted in some way). Maybe somebody intended somebody to get shot. (The story is going is that one guy (teen to early twenties shot his good friend while looking at the weapon from a vendors table, don't know if that is true or not, but it is from somebody who was supposedly at the table). Maybe somebody was looking at the gun, decided to chamber a round they bought earlier for whatever stupid reason (so dear, this is how you load it), and sat it down.

In any case, the door rules doesn't seem to apply if this was a vendor gun that was inspected prior to the show opening. But we don't know yet.

I doubt whomever brought this loaded gun was the only person to do so.

Doubt no longer People were talking about Tanner gun shows on a gun forum I frequent a few weeks ago. Many refuse to go to the show because they ban concealed carry. Others said essentially "how would they know if I don't tell them". People are carrying.

Just like they are carrying beside you in the bank, at the grocery store, on the street, etc.

 

[Cayvmann]

Maybe he was just 'mostly dead'.

Look who knows so much

 

[Drudgewire]

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/man-shot-dead-at-gun-show/story-e6frfku0-1225843419634



Dead ain't what it used to be....

Ahhhh!! Zombie!!

 

[The Mutha]

Having accidently entered a gun show with a loaded gun, I can say that these things can happen. I was going through a very messy divorce 19+ years ago and as a result, I was carrying my Colt .357 revolver in my purse everywhere I went. I was doing volunteer work for the Houston Livestock Show & Rodeo at the Astrodome complex and we were getting a tour of the facilities where our work assignment would be, so the guide took us into the AstroArena through a back door, therefore no security. I wasn't aware that there was a gun show going on in the Arena. As soon as I realized what was going on, I spun around and headed out the door... Chances are the shooting detail in the OP wasn't that scenario, but it can happen.

And now that I have my CHL, if there's no sign out front saying I can't carry into the building, I would be.

 

[One Eyed Jack]

Against myself? Pray tell how. Someone brought a loaded gun to a gun show-- a pretty stupid thing to do on its own-- and it resulted in someone getting shot.

My response was not to the incident. It was to your comment.

Apparently, this would be fine if being able to read above a sixth grade level were a requirement for entry into gun shows.

Implying that your average gun show attendee would not meet this requirement.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Averages however don't mean "everyone".

 

[Big Les]

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

But the guns do help.

 

[Monza]

...If it happened at a class on firearm safety, that would be irony...

It has happened! A DEA agent was giving a gun safety demonstration to a class of high-school students. After declaring that he was the only one in the room trained to handle a firearm, he promptly shot himself in the leg. The video is on YouTube.

 

[dudalb]

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/man-shot-dead-at-gun-show/story-e6frfku0-1225843419634



Dead ain't what it used to be....

Some Copy Editor is catching hell over this one.....

 

[Ziggurat]

If it happened at a class on firearm safety, that would be irony.

You mean like this?

I believe this is the incident Monza was referring to.

 

[geni]

Hmm. So you shoot someone in the chest and they don't die? Did anyone mention the gun type? Appears not to be doing it's job.

 

[roger]

The majority of handgun shootings do not result in death. Even the ones involving multiple bullets with a personal defense load.

 

[Checkmite]

Hmm. So you shoot someone in the chest and they don't die? Did anyone mention the gun type? Appears not to be doing it's job.

 

[lector]

The vic probably just said to the wrong guy, "Hey dude, is that a pistol in your pocket or are ya just glad to see me?"

 

[stilicho]

The majority of handgun shootings do not result in death. Even the ones involving multiple bullets with a personal defense load.

Consider that the origin of the handgun was in an attempt to reproduce the push of the pike at a further distance. Military people I am acquainted with argue that a good deal of the purpose of munitions of any sort is to increase the burden on the medical facilities of the enemy.

Killing someone by using a gun is usually the last thing in anyone's mind when loading the device.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Apparently, this would be fine if being able to read above a sixth grade level were a requirement for entry into gun shows. After all, responsible owners and dealers don't ignore rules, do they?

I wonder how many people have been accidentally run over or hit by cars in car dealerships?

 

[GreNME]

Okay, we have no evidence of this whatsoever. Initial statements are pretty murky, but it's looking like it was a vendor's gun.

I'd actually assumed it was. Incidents like these (or a guy shooting himself in the parking lot while too-eagerly loading a recent purchase) typically tend to be new (to the handler) guns in hands that should have been less eager, more careful, or some combination of both. In other words, stuff happens, and this sort of stuff usually has predictable circumstances.

In general, here's how a Tanner gun show is set up: You have a room full of guns. Each gun has a plastic zip tie running through the magazine area so the gun cannot be put in battery.

You have a room full of ammunition. It's just in bags (if reloaded) or boxes. No locks.

So, to end up with a loaded gun in a gun show doesn't require all that much. The door restrictions, even if accompanied by pat downs and electronic wanding, would not stop somebody from loading a gun if they really wantedto. A pocket knife or nail clipper, and a bit of petty theft is all it really takes. Heck, I've read that just slingshotting the gun will often cut the tie

For sure. I'm pretty positive most gun shows fit this bill. They did in TX, last I knew (Dallas seemed to have one every other month).

I doubt whomever brought this loaded gun was the only person to do so.

Doubt no longer People were talking about Tanner gun shows on a gun forum I frequent a few weeks ago. Many refuse to go to the show because they ban concealed carry. Others said essentially "how would they know if I don't tell them". People are carrying.

Just like they are carrying beside you in the bank, at the grocery store, on the street, etc.

Oh, absolutely. In fact, even when I can tell people are carrying I tend to not care all that much. Cases like those in the OP tend to make those who are carrying look bad.

-----

Against myself? Pray tell how. Someone brought a loaded gun to a gun show-- a pretty stupid thing to do on its own-- and it resulted in someone getting shot.

My response was not to the incident. It was to your comment.

Apparently, this would be fine if being able to read above a sixth grade level were a requirement for entry into gun shows.

Implying that your average gun show attendee would not meet this requirement.[/QUOTE]

You should get that knee checked out, because it's jerking a bit much.

I was commenting on the incident. That you decided to make it about something else is your own hang-up. You're looking for a reason to be offended here, and ultimately that's your problem, not mine.

-----

Apparently, this would be fine if being able to read above a sixth grade level were a requirement for entry into gun shows. After all, responsible owners and dealers don't ignore rules, do they?

I wonder how many people have been accidentally run over or hit by cars in car dealerships?

Indeed. There should probably be a sight test before some moron gets behind the wheel of a test drive, huh?

The take-away lesson: there are reasons for the rules, and not following them can end up with people getting hurt. Self-selection for exemption from the rules does not suffice as a good enough reason. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be a single bullet or shell on the premises during a gun show.