(waves hand frantically)
Oooh! Oooh! Pick me! Pick me! Me! I know!
Well, thanks for calling on me, Teach! I witnessed the second plane* hitting WTC 2. I was as close as many people in lower Manhattan, but I was across the river (10 Exchange Place, right on the river and right opposite the towers and WFC). Ergo, I had an unobstructed view and equally (and more importantly as counter to your idiotic contentions) nothing to create an echo or any other sound effect.
Would you like to know how I first detected the plane*? Go on,.... ask!
I heard it.
It was coming from the area to the southwest of us (maybe WSW?) out past Liberty Park/Statue of Liberty and was therefore out over my right shoulder (as I looked across at the disaster already unfolding in Tower 1), so it was blocked by my own building.
But before we saw it (yes, "we" - there were dozens of us watching out of the windows), we all heard it. All we could see in the air was choppers and I remember thinking initially that that one chopper must be really loud because it sure sounded like a JET ENGINE. It was VERY LOUD. And then we saw the 767 come screaming into our line of vision (screaming - that's a euphemism for going real fast and real loud), and even on that first day, a number of us commented within moments that he seemed to be "gunning the engines, flooring it, revving the thing.....".
And there was no subway running under 10 Exchange Place, not that you could ever hear, because you couldn't hear the PATH train from the streets at that location. This I know from having worked there for almost ten years and never once being able to tell that a train had just passed regardless that two hundred people were now coming out of the station exit.
*Please note.... "planes". Not "shadow thingy" (that would be so precious if you were my kid - he's 18 months - for a supposed thinking adult, though, that's just plain pathetic, sick and wrong).
As I mentioned, there were dozens of people watching with me, and hundreds, if not thousands more downstairs when we were asked to evacuate our buildings. Strangers were crying on strangers' shoulders, Republicans were talking to Socialists, Blacks and Whites and Browns were all upset together, and we talked.... boy did we talk. It was like it was the only thing keeping us sane.
Number of persons who said, "That sure didn't sound like no plane to me." = 0
Number of persons who said, "You sure that was a plane? Sure looked like a shadow thing." = 0
Number of persons who said, "That sumbitz was so loud, I thought it was coming into our building and not going across the river." = 14
Number of persons who said, "I swear, it sounded like he was putting the throttle all the way forward and gaining speed at the end, there." = 20
Number of persons who said, "Just think, nine years from now, one of us is going to be arguing with deranged people on the internet about what just happened." = 0
So now you have both Big Al and I. We saw and heard it. Where are you taking our statements? You going to add them to your body of evidence? Or are you going to just ignore them until you can find another person's partial account and twist that to serve your own morbid fantasies?
(I'm voting that you'll go for the latter.)
Greetings foolmewunz,
In the context of being a witness to the hit on wtc2, your poster name is certainly ironic, one supposes. Thank you very much for choosing to engage and to post up your eyewitness account. It is much appreciated for its contribution to the knowledge base we have here.
I do not ever seek to contradict, dispute, interrogate or otherwise engage in skepticism, let alone cynicism with eye and ear witnesses. Rather, I try to understand what they say as it pertains to what they may have experienced.
I will do neither more nor less here. I take you at your word in the exact way that you have expressed it. I hope you understand what I've said here. I do ask people to elaborate on their statements to provide additional details, if that is alright with them. In my experience in doing that, sometimes it is alright and sometimes it is not alright. People sometimes become suspicious of my motives, irrespective of my telling them I take them at their word.
Now, on and into your post:
I witnessed the second plane* hitting WTC 2. I was as close as many people in lower Manhattan, but I was across the river (10 Exchange Place, right on the river and right opposite the towers and WFC). Ergo, I had an unobstructed view and equally (and more importantly as counter to your idiotic contentions) nothing to create an echo or any other sound effect.
Would you like to know how I first detected the plane*? Go on,.... ask!
I heard it.
In order to have a frame of reference for where you were, it might be helpful to post up some photos of the area:
Overview of the WTC complex.
Before, from your vantage point
After, from your vantage point.
Do the above photos approximate the view you had?
It was coming from the area to the southwest of us (maybe WSW?) out past Liberty Park/Statue of Liberty and was therefore out over my right shoulder (as I looked across at the disaster already unfolding in Tower 1), so it was blocked by my own building.
In the above, am I correct that the "it" you refer to at the beginning is the sound you were hearing?
If so, do you have a recollection as to the length of time the sound lasted that you think would be helpful to post up here and share with us?
If this question exasperates you, such that you think I should not ask it, then do not answer it. I am only looking for information and not seeking to say you didn't see or hear a plane. I think it necessary for me to repeat here what I said at the outset: I take you at your word in the exact way that you have expressed it.
But before we saw it (yes, "we" - there were dozens of us watching out of the windows), we all heard it. All we could see in the air was choppers and I remember thinking initially that that one chopper must be really loud because it sure sounded like a JET ENGINE. It was VERY LOUD.
Got it.
And then we saw the 767 come screaming into our line of vision (screaming - that's a euphemism for going real fast and real loud), and even on that first day, a number of us commented within moments that he seemed to be "gunning the engines, flooring it, revving the thing.....".
Did you recognize it as a "767" right then and there?
Is the photo below an approximation of what you saw, or did what you see look different, such that it was more easily recognizable to you as a 767?
*Please note.... "planes". Not "shadow thingy" (that would be so precious if you were my kid - he's 18 months - for a supposed thinking adult, though, that's just plain pathetic, sick and wrong).
Well, since you appear to have taken exception to my calling what you call the "767" a "shadow thingy" permit me to give you my reasons for calling it as I do. Mind you, as you were an eyewitness and as I was not, your experience trumps mine in that yours is more direct.
So, first of all, in the picture posted above that looks like a silouette to me, and therefore can be called colloquially "a shadow thingy" am I to understand that what you saw did not look like that?
Among the additional reasons I call it a 'shadow thingy' is because that is, in substance, what some other witnesses said. Unlike you who saw a "767," a number of witnesses said they could not be sure what they saw.
As I mentioned, there were dozens of people watching with me, and hundreds, if not thousands more downstairs when we were asked to evacuate our buildings. Strangers were crying on strangers' shoulders, Republicans were talking to Socialists, Blacks and Whites and Browns were all upset together, and we talked.... boy did we talk. It was like it was the only thing keeping us sane.
I have no doubt what you experienced was a life-changing event. Once again, thank you for engaging with me. I know that my perspective on the matter offends many. You did not have to post here, but you did, so I am much obliged.
Number of persons who said, "That sure didn't sound like no plane to me." = 0
Number of persons who said, "You sure that was a plane? Sure looked like a shadow thing." = 0
Number of persons who said, "That sumbitz was so loud, I thought it was coming into our building and not going across the river." = 14
Number of persons who said, "I swear, it sounded like he was putting the throttle all the way forward and gaining speed at the end, there." = 20
Number of persons who said, "Just think, nine years from now, one of us is going to be arguing with deranged people on the internet about what just happened." = 0
Got it.
So now you have both Big Al and I. We saw and heard it. Where are you taking our statements? You going to add them to your body of evidence? Or are you going to just ignore them until you can find another person's partial account and twist that to serve your own morbid fantasies?
(I'm voting that you'll go for the latter.)
I am certainly going to add your statement to the "body of evidence" because that is where it belongs. You are an eyewitness and your experience is important. It is certainly highly valued by me.
At this point, I have an open mind on your experience and on what you witnessed. It doesn't change my mind, necessarily, but I will always acknowledge that foolmewunz is an eye and ear witness who contradicts my assertions.
Now hear this:
You might be right, imho.
Now hear this, too:
There are witnesses who saw it and heard it differently than you did. They, too, might be right, imho.
Once again, I am much obliged for your post. It adds a great deal of information to this thread.
I mean that sincerely.
