RedIbis
Philosopher
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How do you ask a movement a question?
Merged Interesting Analysis of Changing Media Attitudes toward 9/11 Alternative Theories
- Thread starter RedIbis
- Start date
How do you ask a movement a question?
funk de fino
Dreaming of unicorns
Pick 100 and ask them if the media is a monolith.
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
aggle-rithm
Ardent Formulist
Please pay attention. I never used the word "monolith". I said that they tend to march in lock step when it comes to sensational, unfalsifiable claims. One doesn't want to contradict another news source and risk alienating potential viewers/readers/listeners over a "fluff" piece.
aggle-rithm
Ardent Formulist
Post it on a few conspiracy forums and observe the reaction. Usually, it's an immediate banning. Read into that what you will.
RedIbis
Philosopher
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I am trying to understand where you're coming from, and you do seem like one of the friendlier posters, so I'm not trying to be difficult. I just don't understand this position.
It seems to me that you're promoting the woo here when you suggest that the media is "marching in lock-step." Check some of the comments in this thread, like those from Funk and Platypus who seem to be suggesting that it's the Truth Movement who believes the media is a monolith. So which is it?
atavisms
Critical Thinker
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Omg many (most on this thread) of you kids just make me laugh. (so its impossible to take you seriously)
You think it is anti-American to pursue truth and justice. You need to go to school and a learn a little history first. and Insulting and calling people names does Not make your argument any more convincing.
Who can argue there are issues with 9/11? Unanswered questions, unprecedented anomalies, actions and events (a mountain of troubling facts literally) No one.
And the media? golly gee willagers, most American citizens dont know about wtc7 - that should trouble all of you. So we should all be on the same side. the side of truth and justice. We should all want and informed electorate. But we are not getting the truth from the corporate media, not even close.
If it was gravity and fire that destroyed the towers in 56 & 102 minutes and blew them to smithereens in 15 or 20 or however many seconds they each took to come down, completely eradiucating any trace of over 100 individuals, then that is the truth we should all be after. but it has not even been investigated (unless you consider NIST's taking us to the 'collapse initiation' explains what happened next)
If it was also fire and gravity that caused such a flawless and symmetrical implosion of the 47 story Solomon Bros building, then we should all want to be sure of that as well.
These events were not properly investigated, structural steel destroyed, and we got three different from the military. No one was held accountable, hell, top people got good promotions. (lol,, just for afew things off the top of me head)
lol. so please. You can shout at a wall all day, call people names, or keep your head buried in the sand but until you espouse and embody the principles of reason and impartiality you will always be just a cheerleader at best or a 'shill' that unwittingly helps to protect mass murderers at worst. There is only one 'side' in any quest for truth.
There is no 'us' and 'them' no group (sheep) mind, or herd mentality, in a search for truth.
You need to imagine it was your daughter or your mom or whomever you love, and stop attacking the very people who are on your side. This has nothing to do with 'conspiracy theories' or 'big foot' this has to do with mass murder and apparently, (as there had to have been explosives in the towers) unprecedented treason.
Justice will only exist where those not affected by injustice are filled with the same amount of indignation as those offended. Plato
PS - Harrit ets. paper might have some problems, but the finding of mass amounts of hightech 'advance engineered' aluminothermic pyrotechnics in the form of those red/gray chips, is conclusive.
That means the explosives could have been applied as paint, or ceiling tiles, have completely wireless ignition systems. etc.
You can deny, pretend ('bury your head in the hand while you shake your fist in the air') but the facts are clear and the implications of the findings, unambiguous as well.
You think it is anti-American to pursue truth and justice. You need to go to school and a learn a little history first. and Insulting and calling people names does Not make your argument any more convincing.
Who can argue there are issues with 9/11? Unanswered questions, unprecedented anomalies, actions and events (a mountain of troubling facts literally) No one.
And the media? golly gee willagers, most American citizens dont know about wtc7 - that should trouble all of you. So we should all be on the same side. the side of truth and justice. We should all want and informed electorate. But we are not getting the truth from the corporate media, not even close.
If it was gravity and fire that destroyed the towers in 56 & 102 minutes and blew them to smithereens in 15 or 20 or however many seconds they each took to come down, completely eradiucating any trace of over 100 individuals, then that is the truth we should all be after. but it has not even been investigated (unless you consider NIST's taking us to the 'collapse initiation' explains what happened next)
If it was also fire and gravity that caused such a flawless and symmetrical implosion of the 47 story Solomon Bros building, then we should all want to be sure of that as well.
These events were not properly investigated, structural steel destroyed, and we got three different from the military. No one was held accountable, hell, top people got good promotions. (lol,, just for afew things off the top of me head)
lol. so please. You can shout at a wall all day, call people names, or keep your head buried in the sand but until you espouse and embody the principles of reason and impartiality you will always be just a cheerleader at best or a 'shill' that unwittingly helps to protect mass murderers at worst. There is only one 'side' in any quest for truth.
There is no 'us' and 'them' no group (sheep) mind, or herd mentality, in a search for truth.
You need to imagine it was your daughter or your mom or whomever you love, and stop attacking the very people who are on your side. This has nothing to do with 'conspiracy theories' or 'big foot' this has to do with mass murder and apparently, (as there had to have been explosives in the towers) unprecedented treason.
Justice will only exist where those not affected by injustice are filled with the same amount of indignation as those offended. Plato
PS - Harrit ets. paper might have some problems, but the finding of mass amounts of hightech 'advance engineered' aluminothermic pyrotechnics in the form of those red/gray chips, is conclusive.
That means the explosives could have been applied as paint, or ceiling tiles, have completely wireless ignition systems. etc.
You can deny, pretend ('bury your head in the hand while you shake your fist in the air') but the facts are clear and the implications of the findings, unambiguous as well.
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2005
- Messages
- 12,374
Damn. If just saying stuff made it true, I would have said, "I just won the lottery" a long time ago.
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
On the other hand, you pontificate about pursuing truth and justice and back it up by posting a pack of lies. Are we supposed to take you seriously?
Maybe we can start a thread on 'Things the truth movement got right, but didn't mean to.'
Dave
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aggle-rithm
Ardent Formulist
Why do the problems with 9/11 warrant fanatic vigilance, but the problems with the paper are given a pass?
aggle-rithm
Ardent Formulist
This, of course, is in stark contrast to all the other times a 100+ story building with people in it collapsed.
TruthersLie
This space for rent.
- Joined
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- Messages
- 3,715
Woo Hoo the punching bag is back.
Big difference.
Why? How many people died in WTC7? what? speak up... I can't hear you. Which sock have you been posting under the last 6 months? I have my guesses...
Unless you are a structural engineer, you don't need to know anything about wtc7 becaue it was collateral damage from 9/11. like those other 10 buildings which were destroyed on 9/11.
In 1993, EVERYONE in the wtc complex heard the bomb.
in OKC, everyone in several MILES heard the bomb.
in OKC, the bomb blew out all of the windows withing 500 feet. Why are there intact windows across the street from the towers?
What exactly do you think would be left in a collapse of two 110 story tall buildings with hundreds of thousands of tons of debris and then a burning pile for 99 days? You do know that bodys smash, smear and then decompose? And it is sped up by being in a hot humid environment? You do know that right?
The truth has been exposed. You fail to understand it due to personal ignorance, incredulity and a desire to blame someone.
Please tell me you understand computer modeling? No computer model will exactly match any real world event. (well that isn't exactly true... I coudl run millions of simulations and maybe find one that is close... but that is millions of hours of computing time, and then you would be complaining because those other 99999999 simulations were thrown out because they didn't match.
Take some remedial courses, maybe experimental design, reserach methods and scientific methods...
symmetrical?
You really should look up those three words. Flawless? Compared to what? How does a buildign which collapses over 18 seconds, striking two buildings on adjacent sides, one of which is struck on the ROOF match with the words flawless, symmetrical or implosion?
You keep using those words. I do not think that they mean what you think they mean.
we are sure of that. But hey.. I'm sure that you have an alternative theory right? One that stands up to scientific inquiry? One suppoted by over 100 peer reviewed scientific journals? Right?
Oh and you forgot it wasn't tested for godzilla's ****... or some other truther crapola.
as no explosives were in the towers. prove it.
no "advanced engineered" anything was found as this paper is so riddled with errors that you cannot take ANYTHING from it.
I am reminded of that old statement... "so besides your husband being murdered how was the play Mrs Lincoln?"
This isn't the xfiles. Try again.
Yes they are. The direct conclusions that can be drawn is that truthers couldn't do science with a connect the dot science kit, and other truthers are willing to buy a ocean front property in montana (if only mom would give them the money or a ride to look at it).
Try again.
Your lack of understanding of things like explosives, pressure waves and a general ignorance makes me laugh.
Not at all. I think it is anti american to accuse innocent individuals of murdering 3,000 people, or accusing innocent individuals of the conspiracy to cover up the murder of 3,000 people.
Big difference.
My bachelors degree and one of my masters is in history... try again.
You are correct. And accusing up to 10,000 people of conspiring to murder 3,000 american citizens doesn't do you any good. Try again.
It depends on what issues you mean.
Not to the important questions. Those have been answered.
Most of the "anomalies" you will cite have explainations which you just don't understand. But feel free, I'd love to see some.
and none of that in any way shifts the mountain of evidence which is that 19hijakcers took over 4 jets, crashing 3 of them into buildings and 1 into a field in pennslyvania.
Why? How many people died in WTC7? what? speak up... I can't hear you. Which sock have you been posting under the last 6 months? I have my guesses...
Unless you are a structural engineer, you don't need to know anything about wtc7 becaue it was collateral damage from 9/11. like those other 10 buildings which were destroyed on 9/11.
We should. But you start from a false premise and then work backwards pissing on the heros and victims of 9/11 while wrapping yourself in the flag. Try again.
blah blah blah. Thanks for playing.
it had a small thing added there... you know unfought fires AND gravity... but yes that is correct.
Great then you can show a single video from people who are withing 500 feet where you can hear any explosions that would "blew them to smithereens." It should be easy.
In 1993, EVERYONE in the wtc complex heard the bomb.
in OKC, everyone in several MILES heard the bomb.
in OKC, the bomb blew out all of the windows withing 500 feet. Why are there intact windows across the street from the towers?
Ok you finally are off the "free fall" crap. Goody. You can learn.
What exactly do you think would be left in a collapse of two 110 story tall buildings with hundreds of thousands of tons of debris and then a burning pile for 99 days? You do know that bodys smash, smear and then decompose? And it is sped up by being in a hot humid environment? You do know that right?
The truth has been exposed. You fail to understand it due to personal ignorance, incredulity and a desire to blame someone.
Please tell me you understand computer modeling? No computer model will exactly match any real world event. (well that isn't exactly true... I coudl run millions of simulations and maybe find one that is close... but that is millions of hours of computing time, and then you would be complaining because those other 99999999 simulations were thrown out because they didn't match.
Take some remedial courses, maybe experimental design, reserach methods and scientific methods...
flawless?
symmetrical?
implosion?
You really should look up those three words. Flawless? Compared to what? How does a buildign which collapses over 18 seconds, striking two buildings on adjacent sides, one of which is struck on the ROOF match with the words flawless, symmetrical or implosion?
You keep using those words. I do not think that they mean what you think they mean.
we are sure of that. But hey.. I'm sure that you have an alternative theory right? One that stands up to scientific inquiry? One suppoted by over 100 peer reviewed scientific journals? Right?
says who? Talk to strutural engineers. Read the journals. They are satisfied. But hey... if you are right, there should be dozens of (if not hundreds) peer reviwed engineering journals which support your cause. Name just one.
Oh and you forgot it wasn't tested for godzilla's ****... or some other truther crapola.
smallest violin in the world playing just for you.
as no explosives were in the towers. prove it.
********. over 20 methodological problems calls into question findings, results and conclusions. Bad science=bad science. Try again. your ignorance is showing. Which sock was it?
yoru ignorance of science is showing. bad methodology= bad science= invalid findings.
no "advanced engineered" anything was found as this paper is so riddled with errors that you cannot take ANYTHING from it.
I am reminded of that old statement... "so besides your husband being murdered how was the play Mrs Lincoln?"
ROFLMAO.
This isn't the xfiles. Try again.
Yes they are. The direct conclusions that can be drawn is that truthers couldn't do science with a connect the dot science kit, and other truthers are willing to buy a ocean front property in montana (if only mom would give them the money or a ride to look at it).
Try again.
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sheeplesnshills
Illuminator
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Messages
- 3,706
We can and do. I've yet to find a single item raised by truthers that stands up up to any scrutiny. Not one.
What about WTC? Surely you understand that it was a predicted collapse due to damage and fire. Are you saying the NYFD are lying?
The collapse initiation is the important part.....anyone with knowledge of how the building was built and a grasp of physics can understand that once it started moving it would collapse as it did. There is no mystery here.
We are sure, all educated qualified people are sure......only the unqualified and/or insane people are not sure.
Who exactly do you want punished......and for what?
OK post some evidence then......
I have, my parents and brother have visited the WTC and I and my family were due to stay at the Marriot Hotel and visit it a week after 911. A few day later and I could have been in the WTC when it was hit so don';t talk to me about imagining what could have happened
There is no evidence of any explosives at all. If you have some please present it!
Justice depends on evidence. There is ZERO that it was a Gov. plot. or anything other than 19 hijackers flying airliners into the buildings/ground
[/QUOTE]
PRESENT THE EVIDENCE!!!
Cl1mh4224rd
Philosopher
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2006
- Messages
- 9,778
A W Smith
Philosopher
Kid? I'm no kid punk, ill be 55 next month, I'm probably old enough to be your dad
"truth and justice" My, your bullshiat sounds so impressive when you dress it up like that
There are no "issues". Ive been here four years, We addressed ALL of your incredulous delusions.
Its "Willikers", not "willigers", unless you're Elmer Fudd,
Most Americans watched the news that entire day and remember that a building was due to collapse that evening. they expected it. most forgot that it had a number. they remember it as the Solomon Brothers building. I sure as hell remember it.
Should we re-investigate anything all over again when morons attach hyperbole and euphemism to an event? More pretty words designed to get the juices flowing. Are ya excited yet?
flawless and symmetrical in that it fell in the direction of gravity? Tell us genius. what other way should it have fell? Can you find another 47 story building that collapsed more to your liking?What way do 110 story buildings typically collapse? North? south? east? north east? to they bend in half? to they kink like an accordion and fold up? Are they supposed to fall in the direction of the moon? Tell us Einstein.
What else ya got teetering on that pointy head of yours? Not properly investigated? An investigation the biggest of ever ever ever? Penttbom? ever heard of it? How many pages was the nist report again? How much of it did you read? I'm thinking you didn't even get past the FAQ. You are lazy and it shows in the shiat you're spewing.
No sandy hair here, But there's some fecal matter in your scalp. Wheres your head been for nine years?
argument from emotion, followed quickly by argument from incredulity. Your last point is almost correct though, You and your ilk are bordering on unprecedented treason by being apologists for the terrorists.
Cliche think much?
the conclusion being. Its PAINT or similar. When your done waving that useless paper around could you finish wiping your ass with it?
exploding 20" x 20" tiles? you wanna try and fit them in a 24" x 24" grid Bob the builder? and what are these tiles that are suspended about two feet away from the steel supposed to do? And Paint? Pardon me a moment
The only ones shaking their fists in the air while their heads up their asses are those in the truth movement. While we sit here in this forum exposing them for the lying jackasses that they are. It seems they have a need to come here in an attempt at validation. Why is that? Why don't they just
ignore us? Its difficult to even find this place doing a generic 9/11 google search. Do they fear critical thinking that much?
Grizzly Bear
このマスクに&#
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- May 30, 2008
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- 7,963
I for one don't feel like writing a long winded response so I'll make myself clear very quickly;
@ atavisms: you're wasting time trying to convince people of the demolitions argument. If you're gonna repeat the same crap about controlled demolition then take it the heck out this thread. This isn't yours to ruin.
@ atavisms: you're wasting time trying to convince people of the demolitions argument. If you're gonna repeat the same crap about controlled demolition then take it the heck out this thread. This isn't yours to ruin.
I didn't find his post at difficult to understand. Media outlets don't espouse the same views, which is especially true when it concerns politics. But politics is often the subject of people's ideology, whereas issues concerning physics, and specialized fields of expertise offer no such bias flexibility. The difference between talk radio and the televised media is a perfect example.
If their label of "mainstream media" to encompass everything from talk radio to televised media isn't enough when put in the context of what they're rejecting... I see the major talk show hosts use this term to describe the prevalent views of the media in politics, but again, for something that involves topics ranging from architecture, engineering, physics, and the like, there's little flexibility for defining who's credible and who's not. These aren't subjects of opinion, they're either right or wrong, and the science doesn't know bias.
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Gullibly digging around in lies and stuff that you dont understand is certain to mess with your head. The next thing to happen is you start posting it.......again and again and again. Get a new hobby.
Heiwa? bill smith? pdoh?
If you're talking about in real life, I never run into twoofers period in real life.