Let them eat cake vs. Let them eat cake

[Ikarus]

"Let them eat cake" is the traditional translation of the French phrase "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche", supposedly said by a French princess upon learning that the peasants had no bread. As brioche is a luxury bread enriched with eggs and butter, it would reflect the princess's obliviousness to the nature of a famine.

I happened to be thinking about this sentence today, somehow. And it occurred to me that different contexts give this sentence a different meaning and that had me wondering about the correct use of the sentence.

For example, the princess could have meant it thus: "I really don't care how they feed themselves", which would be accompanied by a dismissive gesture. The peasants can't afford cake, so it isn't a really good solution, but that is good enough if you just don't care. In contemporary use, this would indicate utter (egoistic) disinterest.

From the English translation, one could also think it might be a generous statement that ignores any and all economic constraints. "They have not enough bread? Divert all means! [Even if it means to] let them eat [our royal] cake!" I'm not entirely sure if the French sentence allows that interpretation; I'm not so good at it..But if this was plausible, it would show that this princess had no idea about reality, but wanted to do good. In contemporary use, it could indicate a ridiculous decision with good intentions, that is bound to fail very hard.

One more possibility is that perhaps the peasants had just raided a royal bakery, and she was sympathetic because of their bad situation: "Let them eat that cake... It's okay." They are eating beyond their means, off the royal supply, but the princess/queen was accepting her loss because of the dire situation of the peasantry. If this was true, we could use the sentence to indicate a tolerance policy towards theft.

So I checked the internet for some context and found the wikipedia article, from which I copied the introduction above. I did not get any wiser, though. It turns out that Marie Antoinette is very unlikely to have said it and that it was attributed to her by republican libellists. Furthermore, apparently other people have also said it before it was pinned to her.

I'm hoping to hear some ideas on this sentence. How should the saying "Let them eat cake" be interpreted and how is it (supposed) to be viewed? Is it just a republican argument against monarchy or can it be used in other situations? More personally: how would you use it, and have you ever heard it being used?

 

[iknownothing]

I'm hoping to hear some ideas on this sentence. How should the saying "Let them eat cake" be interpreted and how is it (supposed) to be viewed? Is it just a republican argument against monarchy or can it be used in other situations? More personally: how would you use it, and have you ever heard it being used?

I think the point was more to portray her as being so clueless and spoiled, she didn't even grasp the basic fact that poor people did not have access to cake (brioche, whatever).

 

[malbui]

I can't think of any real scope for subtlety in the meaning of the French or of different translation options into English, except that brioche has no close equivalent. I always interpreted it as a piece of propaganda (which, to be fair, is true of a great deal of what we think we know about the Revolution) designed to show that Marie-Antoinette was, as iknownothing has said, spoiled, ignorant, insensitive, and completely cut off from the realities of everyday life in her adopted country at that time.

 

[Mirrorglass]

An interesting theory I read a while ago (unfortunately, I can't find it anymore) stated that since brioche was made from different ingredients than the normal bread eaten by most frenchmen at the time, it could be made even when bread was scarce, and that Marie Antoinette was merely suggesting the peasants eat what they can.

Of course, since apparently Marie never said it, this theory must be bogus.

 

[roger]

An interesting theory I read a while ago (unfortunately, I can't find it anymore) stated that since brioche was made from different ingredients than the normal bread eaten by most frenchmen at the time, it could be made even when bread was scarce, and that Marie Antoinette was merely suggesting the peasants eat what they can.

Of course, since apparently Marie never said it, this theory must be bogus.

No, this holds no water. Brioche is rich. Beyond the normal ingredients required for any bread (flour, water, yeast), brioche also contains eggs, butter, and sugar. Yes, we all have sugar on our tables today, but at one time it was rare, expensive, and coveted. There's no way you can make brioche if you cannot afford bread in today's economy, let alone back then.

 

[TX50]

It's revisionist history gone mad! Mad, I say!

I've always just accepted that it's pure propaganda (albeit very likely pretty
near the mark) spread by those demned revolutionary Frenchies (demn
them!).

 

[Roboramma]

I think the point was more to portray her as being so clueless and spoiled, she didn't even grasp the basic fact that poor people did not have access to cake (brioche, whatever).

This. Basically, "If they're so hungry, why don't they just eat cake? What's the problem?"

 

[dudalb]

ANybody else remember Alan Sherman's "You Went The Wrong Way Old King Louis"?

 

[Cavemonster]

No, this holds no water. Brioche is rich. Beyond the normal ingredients required for any bread (flour, water, yeast), brioche also contains eggs, butter, and sugar. Yes, we all have sugar on our tables today, but at one time it was rare, expensive, and coveted. There's no way you can make brioche if you cannot afford bread in today's economy, let alone back then.

Well, to play devil's advocate, a very small farm is likely to have chickens and a few cows, but not to be large enough to grow much wheat, and then grinding that wheat into flour required the use of a mill.

So for certain kinds of farmers, at a point in history when the price of flour is vastly inflated, the eggs and butter at least may be less rare and expensive than more flour... maybe?

 

[Delvo]

One explanation I ran into once was that "cake" was a nickname for the stuff that accumulates on the inside walls of chimneys, so she was expressing her disdain for those people by saying they should eat something that obviously would be awful.

I get a kick out of the more glaringly ridiculous explanations for words & phrases. This one reminds me of the tale about "raining cats and dogs" coming from the fact that, in the houses of whatever era they said it was, pets would respond to stormy weather by climbing up to the ceilings, from which they would sometimes fall... or the one about the word "Viking" having originally used the "-ing" exactly the same way it is in modern English (for verbs in the gerund form), attached to a verb for raiding, so a "viking" was someone who viked, or someone who "went viking".

Sometimes, these hard-to-explain words & phrases just make for classic stuff.

 

[Mirrorglass]

I found the article I mentioned. Now, I know Yahoo answers is hardly authoritative, but the point of the thread was to discuss possible meanings, not to try to prove one.

Let them eat cake

However, "Let them eat brioche" isn't quite as cold a sentiment as you might imagine. At the time, French law required bakers to sell fancy breads at the same low price as the plain breads if they ran out of the latter. The goal was to prevent bakers from making very little cheap bread and then profiting off the fancy, expensive bread. Whoever really said "Let them eat brioche" may have meant that the bakery laws should be enforced so the poor could eat the fancy bread if there wasn't enough plain bread to go around.

 

[Ikarus]

I think the point was more to portray her as being so clueless and spoiled, she didn't even grasp the basic fact that poor people did not have access to cake (brioche, whatever).

This. Basically, "If they're so hungry, why don't they just eat cake? What's the problem?"

I guess that is the accepted meaning... But since it is unlikely that she actually said it (herself) and that the argument only seems to have meaning in an anti-monarchic context that way, it's very likely that she wasn't actually that stupid and the whole cake is a lie!

It's revisionist history gone mad! Mad, I say!

I've always just accepted that it's pure propaganda (albeit very likely pretty
near the mark) spread by those demned revolutionary Frenchies (demn
them!).

I'm beginning to think it isn't anywhere near the mark. If you read the wiki on Marie Antoinette, you can see that she actually had a lot of interests, including learning English, hot air balloons, Rousseau, native American culture, and also that she was raised in a bourgeous environment, among non royals. That is not the kind of profile that breeds such dismissive ignorant sentiment. (Unless perhaps she was a notorious escapist fantast)

I found the article I mentioned. Now, I know Yahoo answers is hardly authoritative, but the point of the thread was to discuss possible meanings, not to try to prove one.

Let them eat cake

Interesting. Sounds somewhat plausible. Except that bakers who would make more cheap bread than their neighbour baker would make a lot more sales and profit, I think, so the problem of bakers selling only pricey quality food should solve itself...?

 

[Mirrorglass]

Interesting. Sounds somewhat plausible. Except that bakers who would make more cheap bread than their neighbour baker would make a lot more sales and profit, I think, so the problem of bakers selling only pricey quality food should solve itself...?

That's assuming the supply of bread is greater than the demand. If there's a famine, then all the bread will be sold regardless of the price, and bakeries would make much more money selling the expensive stuff.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I think the point was more to portray her as being so clueless and spoiled, she didn't even grasp the basic fact that poor people did not have access to cake (brioche, whatever).

Yup. And I keep hearing remarkably similar things from various financial advisors. People facing daunting bills and no job are advised to go ahead and cash in those CDs or 401K plan--showing the advisors are oblivious to the fact that most Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

 

[samm]

I was going to do a thorough examination of the questions in the OP and contribute in a meaningful way by posting my findings here, but then it occurred to me (as it often does), "Nah, let 'em eat cake."

 

[Mirrorglass]

I was going to do a thorough examination of the questions in the OP and contribute in a meaningful way by posting my findings here, but then it occurred to me (as it often does), "Nah, let 'em eat cake."

Well you can just go and eat cake, then.

 

[aggle-rithm]

It was all a misunderstanding. She actually said, "Let them meet Kate". Kate also had no bread, and Marie Antoinette thought they might really hit it off.

It is unknown why she suddenly chose to speak English at this point.

 

[Ysidro]

Side point: Marie Antoinette did not say this. Even if she had, she would have been quoting Roussou who would have written about an earlier incident. At the time of the writing she would have been a teenager and had not left Austria for France.

So, while she had some really weird things going on (her toy farm, anyone?) let's not pin this one on her.

 

[steve s]

ANybody else remember Alan Sherman's "You Went The Wrong Way Old King Louis"?

Oo, oo, I do, I do.

If you had been a nicer king, we wouldn't do a thing
But you were bad you must admit.
We're gonna take you and the queen, down to the guillotine
And shorten you a little bit.


We had a couple of his albums when I was a kid. I listened to them so many times I can still recite several of them from memory (including the one above.)

Steve S

 

[Idiot Wind]

How about 'Let them eat steak'?
Solves the problem of the extra ingredients needed for making brioche and takes the wheat right out of the equasion.