Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[kmortis]

As a penance for mucking up the 11000th post, I went to hear Norman Geisler lecture. Also Brannon Howse. There was also a creation guy after the break (or selling-orgy), but based on a preview of his talk (when Howse ran out to his motor coach to get something he'd forgotten), it was clear he didn't understand that you don't have to yell when you're on mic. Also, having visited the Creation Museum earlier this year, we figured we'd done our creationist time, so we left early.

Geisler: Began by saying, "It's great to be here tonight. Of course, at my age, it's great to be anywhere." I am not kidding. There were many jokes of the same quality. He assured us that after his lecture, we'd never have to be worried about facing skeptics/atheists/agnostics again.

General outline: What is truth? Things that are true, like 2+2=4 and the divinity of Jesus. Can more than one religion be true? No. Which one is true? Christianity. How do we know? Bible says so. The end. He took an hour to get through this, though. He noted that he has written a book on logic and reason. I assume it was used as the main text in DOC's logic class.

Brannon Howse: Bat-guano, raving, commie/fascist/fag/Satanic-element-taking-over-gubmint conspiracy theory crazy.

Dude, if that was your pennance, you can muck up at least three more posts. Hell, start your own thread an muck it up and no one can say a thing cause, brother, you've earned it.

 

[kmortis]

The blessings of the Aten be upon your house, and all who dwell therein.

Now we just have to hope that 'Teh Messenger' doesn't show up and bring more important stuff in, because it really spoils a good thread when that happens.

[URL]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/209954b7bb91e6c88e.gif[/URL]

Well, there's a thought. DOC can start a new thread where we'll all be serious* and this one can be moved to community?




*Well, at least as serious as DOC is honest.

 

[Akhenaten]

Hrm....so you're suggesting that next time DOC posts some drivel, rather than trotting out all the old refutations, we should all post at least one stanza from "And did those feet in ancient time" by William Blake?

Well, it's certainly been suggested now, in any case.

I'm in.

Dude, if that was your pennance, you can muck up at least three more posts. Hell, start your own thread an muck it up and no one can say a thing cause, brother, you've earned it.

Indeed. I most heartlily second this sentiment.

Very well done, Brother Lucian.

 

[Lucian]

Dude, if that was your pennance, you can muck up at least three more posts. Hell, start your own thread an muck it up and no one can say a thing cause, brother, you've earned it.

Very well done, Brother Lucian.

It's "sister," but thanks.

I'd add more about Geisler's talk because the reasoning was embarrassingly poor, but he wasn't trying to offer evidence that the NT is true. He was arguing that Christianity is true and all other religions (but especially Islam) are false (as well as atheism, humanism, etc.) and his only evidence was the Bible. Well, no, that's not entirely fair: he did also quote mine the Koran to show that Jesus was a better prophet that Mohammed.

I did have flashbacks to this thread, though. He mentioned the fulfilled prophecies and the 5000+ manuscripts. He did also say that the Bible is 100% true, and there was a slide that affirmed this, complete with exclamation point, because, as you know, PowerPoint makes it true. I didn't quite follow how he came to this conclusion. I think it had something to do with the fact that the Bible is true; thus, it's true.

And, yes, in my notes, I occasionally drew a circle and imagined it was Akhenaten's lovely animation.

 

[kmortis]

It's "sister," but thanks.

Um....in my native language, the word you know as "sister" is transliterated "brother"? That's my story and I'm sticking to it.



Now, I'm off to invent a time machine so I can edit the dictionaries....

 

[carlitos]

Lucian, to be fair, most of us operate under the "there are no women on the internet" rule. It's just safer that way.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that talk. This thread has really opened my eyes, believe it or not.

 

[kmortis]

I'd add more about Geisler's talk because the reasoning was embarrassingly poor, but he wasn't trying to offer evidence that the NT is true. He was arguing that Christianity is true and all other religions (but especially Islam) are false (as well as atheism, humanism, etc.) and his only evidence was the Bible. Well, no, that's not entirely fair: he did also quote mine the Koran to show that Jesus was a better prophet that Mohammed.

I did have flashbacks to this thread, though. He mentioned the fulfilled prophecies and the 5000+ manuscripts. He did also say that the Bible is 100% true, and there was a slide that affirmed this, complete with exclamation point, because, as you know, PowerPoint makes it true. I didn't quite follow how he came to this conclusion. I think it had something to do with the fact that the Bible is true; thus, it's true.

And, yes, in my notes, I occasionally drew a circle and imagined it was Akhenaten's lovely animation.

did you ever want to stand up and shout "LIAR!"? If so, how would you convey the red text? You could have called me and I would have called him a "moron" for you.

Lucian: "Excuse me, Mr. Geisler, I have someone on the phone for you"
Geisler: ??? "Um, Ok"
Me: "MORON! JERK! KNEE-BITER!" <hangs up the phone>
G: ???

I think it must be funnier in my head.

 

[Fitter]

did you ever want to stand up and shout "LIAR!"? If so, how would you convey the red text? You could have called me and I would have called him a "moron" for you.

Lucian: "Excuse me, Mr. Geisler, I have someone on the phone for you"
Geisler: ??? "Um, Ok"
Me: "MORON! JERK! KNEE-BITER!" <hangs up the phone>
G: ???

I think it must be funnier in my head.

Funnier but so very lonely.

 

[kmortis]

Funnier but so very lonely.

Just me and the dried pea!

 

[Lucian]

did you ever want to stand up and shout "LIAR!"? If so, how would you convey the red text? You could have called me and I would have called him a "moron" for you.

Lucian: "Excuse me, Mr. Geisler, I have someone on the phone for you"
Geisler: ??? "Um, Ok"
Me: "MORON! JERK! KNEE-BITER!" <hangs up the phone>
G: ???

I think it must be funnier in my head.

Well, yes, I did indeed want to yell things, and my partner in crime was on the verge of explosion. I mostly had trouble controlling my right eyebrow, which has a tendency to shoot up on its own when it hears nonsense. In the semi-darkness of a church balcony, this wasn't too much of a problem. One of the reasons we left before the yelling creationist's (Dr. Ron Carlson) exhortation was because our ability to contain ourselves was waning.

With Geisler, I mostly wanted to yell "idiot." He may really believe this piffle (well, I suppose, they all believe their piffle, but he was comparatively inoffensive). He was smug, but not screaming crazy. With his argyle sweater and corn-pone humor, he seemed like a nice guy (in comparison). But what he said is Just. So. Dumb. "If someone tells you there is no truth, ask them, 'Well, is that true?' If someone tells you there is no absolute truth, ask them, "Is that absolutely true?'" Because there's no difference in his mind between statements that are true (2+2=4) and The Truth. And apparently there's only true and false, no opinions, interpretations, qualified judgments, etc.

People were lapping it up. I suppose he was telling them what they wanted to hear: what they believe is true--unequivocally, demonstrably true. People who disagree with you are dolts (and damned, of course).

Brannon Howse was much worse, though, and it was his show. Conspiracy theories, ad hominem attacks, mentions of Hitler every two sentences. And while people were nodding and smiling when Geisler talked, they were yelling "Ay-men!" to the offensive crap Howse was spewing.

Highlights: Howse confusing God and Satan ("Satan is building his kingdom through 3 forms of government....I mean God..."); in his prayer, Howse thanking Jesus for his wrath.

Howse has a beautiful singing voice. Classically trained, apparently. He should have stuck with that.

 

[Her Dark Star]

Nomination for Akhenaten, I so wish I'd thought of that (sums up the futility of debating with Doc quite well). Well here's to a thread of infinite length, we may not ever come up with any evidence of why the NT writers told the truth but we might just warp the universe with the L-Space effect! Hey if we warp it enough we might find god hiding in a pocket dimension!

 

[kmortis]

Well, yes, I did indeed want to yell things, and my partner in crime was on the verge of explosion. I mostly had trouble controlling my right eyebrow, which has a tendency to shoot up on its own when it hears nonsense. In the semi-darkness of a church balcony, this wasn't too much of a problem. One of the reasons we left before the yelling creationist's (Dr. Ron Carlson) exhortation was because our ability to contain ourselves was waning.

With Geisler, I mostly wanted to yell "idiot." He may really believe this piffle (well, I suppose, they all believe their piffle, but he was comparatively inoffensive). He was smug, but not screaming crazy. With his argyle sweater and corn-pone humor, he seemed like a nice guy (in comparison). But what he said is Just. So. Dumb. "If someone tells you there is no truth, ask them, 'Well, is that true?' If someone tells you there is no absolute truth, ask them, "Is that absolutely true?'" Because there's no difference in his mind between statements that are true (2+2=4) and The Truth. And apparently there's only true and false, no opinions, interpretations, qualified judgments, etc.

People were lapping it up. I suppose he was telling them what they wanted to hear: what they believe is true--unequivocally, demonstrably true. People who disagree with you are dolts (and damned, of course).

Brannon Howse was much worse, though, and it was his show. Conspiracy theories, ad hominem attacks, mentions of Hitler every two sentences. And while people were nodding and smiling when Geisler talked, they were yelling "Ay-men!" to the offensive crap Howse was spewing.

Highlights: Howse confusing God and Satan ("Satan is building his kingdom through 3 forms of government....I mean God..."); in his prayer, Howse thanking Jesus for his wrath.

Howse has a beautiful singing voice. Classically trained, apparently. He should have stuck with that.

But how would you have conveied the red text? Inquiring minds want to know.



Ok, it's just me who wants to know, but I got an inquiring mind.


Ok, it's not REALLY a mind, it's more like a hamster in a clear plastic runny ball thing, but it is inquiring.


Ok, it's not a hamster, per se. Hamster invokes the image of a living rodent. This is more like a dead lump of dried algea. It's just that "inquiring dead lumps of algea in a clear plastic runny ball thing" doesn't have the same ring, eh?

 

[Hokulele]

But how would you have conveied the red text? Inquiring minds want to know.

Spittle.

 

[kmortis]

Spittle.

From the balcony? That's some impressive range.

 

[carlitos]

Hampster invokes the image of a living rodent.

As does "hamster."

 

[kmortis]

As does "hamster."

HEY! You try controling 30 tentacles whule tyoing. You're bound to make some meestkes.







mumble, mumble, mumble....

 

[Lucian]

But how would you have conveied the red text? Inquiring minds want to know.

I was thinking the red face from the increased blood pressure and the bloodshot eyes from the aneurysm might have contributed to the impression.

 

[Akhenaten]

It's "sister," but thanks.

I thought that myself, but kmortis DOC tricked me, somehow.

Soz

 

[Akhenaten]

Nomination for Akhenaten, I so wish I'd thought of that (sums up the futility of debating with Doc quite well). Well here's to a thread of infinite length, we may not ever come up with any evidence of why the NT writers told the truth but we might just warp the universe with the L-Space effect! Hey if we warp it enough we might find god hiding in a pocket dimension!

Thank you.


Rest assured, if you hang around in this thread for long enough, all manner of inspired (and not-so-inspired) ideas will start occurring to you.

It seems they're already starting, as a matter of fact.

 

[Lucian]

I thought that myself, but kmortis DOC tricked me, somehow.

Soz

No problem. I chose a masculine name, so I understand that people would assume I'm male. It could be worse, though: I'm apparently going to have a blog post published in a Young Australian Skeptics' anthology under the name "Animala PolarBunny." Now that's a stupid name.