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Chavez vs the USA

Grizzly Bear said:
I'm already aware that some of the anti-chavez media gave free air time to his opponents, blacked out coverage of the countercoup, among other things. If Chavez had any legitimate case to penalize the networks, then that would have been it, and he failed to act on it, instead favoring more unconstitutional justifications for not renewing the network licenses.

Freedom of speech doesn't discriminate between biased news coverage and legitimate airing. This is why here in the US fools like Alex Jones can ram out schizophrenic stories on chem trails and 9/11 conspiracies. They should feel fortunate to be here, because god forbid if they had to bash Chavez. He'll take any fervent critic of his off the air.




His failures in reducing crime rates, homicide rates, and his train wreck of a public service job, along side his infringment of free speech there are indisputable. What you call demonizing is supported by the very decisions he makes when he does politics.



He makes it pretty clear he believes the aid efforts are being carried out not only wrong, but that the use of more military personnel equates to something of a military occupation to take over the country.

Nothing new coming from him there:
Link
He obviously hasn't seen the figures from Stalin, nor can he get the paranoid idea out of his head that he's facing an invasion.

Link


This is pretty much like North Korea's sentiment that the US want to invade their country when there's absolutely nothing provoking one, not even self-interest n the part of the US.



I've long considered Chavez paranoid; the HAARP claim whether true or not makes no difference to what I see in his personality as a power hungry politician. He's said and done plenty of other things that show it and having him blame the Haiti earthquake on tectonic weaponry isn't needed for it.

But makes for some entertaining conspiracy drabble whenever he says this crazy stuff.
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Most of Venezuelas Media is Privately owned and do critisize Chavez / the Bolivarian revolution.
Btw what was unconstitutional about not renewing RCTV licence?
what law is forciing the government to renew licences?

afterr the RCTV case Chavez was demonized and people in the west start to belive there is no freedom of speech, and only state controlled media, which is not the case.

while they do have troubles with crime, they are working on it.
but strange we hear nothing about the Bolivarian Missions, that provide food, education, healthcare etc to the Barios, the poorest of the poor people in Venezuela. Why are you ignoring the achievements?

One has to wonder why the Venezuelan people elected him, reelected him and confirmed him in his office.

strange the people outside Venezuela seem to be the ones that know best what president the Venezuelans dont need. While the Stupid Venezuelans keep voting for this demon that failed in everything.
I wonder why, sure now we will hear some conspiracy theorys of stolen elections :)
 
Travis said:
Well, I'm soooooo sorry that some people are choosing to overlook the insanity of Chavez claiming that the US is invading Haiti by clinging onto your misinterpretation of the speculation about motives surrounding the supposed "invasion."
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Actual skeptics who are following this thread should recognize this for what it is ... evasive gibberish that is. The way you cling to your debunked statement is worthy of a stundy nomination.

It's easy to recognize when it's other people who are full of it. Not so easy to see in oneself.

How about this: I'll apologize for inadvertently giving the impression that Chavez thinks the US is invading Haiti for the specific purpose of invading Cuba/Venezuela if you'll...
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Since when is being truthful something that requires a negotiation?

Bill Thompson said:
Here is a conspiracy theory for you...
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Redefining the outer reaches of cluelessness.

Grizzly Bear said:
the HAARP claim whether true or not
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You would know the claim was false if you were paying even the slightest attention to the thread. It's only the topic of the thread after all.

But no. That's because, similar to the birthers and truthers and creationists most of us think so poorly of, true belief trumps the facts.

In this case, it's a belief I'm more or less in alignment with. However just because I think that Chavez is a tyrant and a thug, this doesn't give me license to glibly echo things I know (or should know) to be false.
 
varwoche said:
In this case, it's a belief I'm more or less in alignment with. However just because I think that Chavez is a tyrant and a thug, this doesn't give me license to glibly echo things I know (or should know) to be false.
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For one I never stated I believed in the quote, I said it made no difference to me what I think of him whether he said it or not. The idea that criticism should be directed at things people say, rather than what they aren't is perfectly valid, But next time read my posts. :)

ETA: I did look up the claim earlier, but I haven't seen anything showing he made that claim directly. It seems to be some media output in that country.


DC said:
What was unconstitutional about not renewing RCTV licence?
afterr the RCTV case Chavez was demonized and people in the west start to belive there is no freedom of speech, and only state controlled media, which is not the case.
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Expiration results from the refusal to renew the licenses. Chavez and his administration isn't shy about resorting to financial, legal, and extralegal means to weaken any media
outlet it sees as a threat. The criticism he received for doing this to the RCTV station is actually pretty well founded because by definition his justification for refusing to renew their licenses is their criticism of his policies and refusal to air his speeches. From a legal perspective he can do it, but the constitutionality of it is highly debatable.

DC said:
while they do have troubles with crime, they are working on it.
but strange we hear nothing about the Bolivarian Missions, that provide food, education, healthcare etc to the Barios, the poorest of the poor people in Venezuela. Why are you ignoring the achievements?
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It's true that this is going on, but on the other hand other areas of public service are horribly neglected; police corruption, high crime rates, and bureaucratic failure to address them and other similar problems ongoing.

DC said:
I wonder why, sure now we will hear some conspiracy theorys of stolen elections :)
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Once you've had a little exposure to politics you come find out that some people really do support the darnedest things. The people voice an opinion, opinions aren't always right.
 
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DC said:
Now you are demonizing him. you provide a very onsided picture.
you show the poblems but you bring up none of the Bolivarian revolutions achievments, like the Bolivarian Missions.

the West doesnt want to hear about the good things they did, we only want to hear what he did wrong.

you have already fallen for the demonization of chavez.
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I wasn't trying to paint a fair and balanced picture of Chavez. I only pointed out that he is indeed scapegoating the West in general and USA in particular for his own political gain, and ignoring major problems at home.

I really don't see why pointing out he isn't an equivalent of an offspring between Cruella de Ville and Sauron would be absolutely necessary in doing so. Some of his policies are bound to produce some positive results.

McHrozni
 
aggle-rithm said:
When you say "Chili" do you mean Chile, the country, or Chili's, the restaurant chain?
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I mean the canned stuff you consume or the stuff you put on hot dogs at 7/11. As a strange coincidence, there is a guy named Hugo Chavez who runs both the food as well as the country Chile. Sorry for the confusion.
 
varwoche said:
Actual skeptics who are following this thread should recognize this for what it is ... evasive gibberish that is. The way you cling to your debunked statement is worthy of a stundy nomination.

It's easy to recognize when it's other people who are full of it. Not so easy to see in oneself.

Since when is being truthful something that requires a negotiation?
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That you choose to read what I wrote wrongly is not something I will apologize for. I suppose we are done here.
 
DC said:
while they do have troubles with crime, they are working on it.
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That must be why crime has been rising steadily since 2000, with major growth since 2007. Oh wait, you probably meant they're trying to decrease the crime rate?
Never mind, then.

I find it very curious how your only excuse can be "they're working on it", while you ignore the very serious criticisms Hugo is facing.

McHrozni
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
You forgot about Indonesia back in 2004. ;)
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I am reminded of people who claim these things are acts of God. I knew of some islamic fanatics on a forum that is nwt shut down who said Katrina and other natural disasters were Allah's act. This was before some earthquake in Han, Iran. When I told him that Allah was displeased with simple muslim folk, he did not respond.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
For one I never stated I believed in the quote, I said it made no difference to me what I think of him whether he said it or not. The idea that criticism should be directed at things people say, rather than what they aren't is perfectly valid, But next time read my posts. :)

ETA: I did look up the claim earlier, but I haven't seen anything showing he made that claim directly. It seems to be some media output in that country.



Expiration results from the refusal to renew the licenses. Chavez and his administration isn't shy about resorting to financial, legal, and extralegal means to weaken any media
outlet it sees as a threat. The criticism he received for doing this to the RCTV station is actually pretty well founded because by definition his justification for refusing to renew their licenses is their criticism of his policies and refusal to air his speeches. From a legal perspective he can do it, but the constitutionality of it is highly debatable.


It's true that this is going on, but on the other hand other areas of public service are horribly neglected; police corruption, high crime rates, and bureaucratic failure to address them and other similar problems ongoing.


Once you've had a little exposure to politics you come find out that some people really do support the darnedest things. The people voice an opinion, opinions aren't always right.
Click to expand...


oh what part of the constitution was violated according to you?
 
McHrozni said:
That must be why crime has been rising steadily since 2000, with major growth since 2007. Oh wait, you probably meant they're trying to decrease the crime rate?
Never mind, then.

I find it very curious how your only excuse can be "they're working on it", while you ignore the very serious criticisms Hugo is facing.

McHrozni
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what should he do about it?
increasing police forces and listening to you blaming him for building a policestate?
 
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DC said:
what should he do about it?
increasing police forces and listening to you blaming him for building a policestate?
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Venezuela has plentiful policemen. The problem is the corruption is pervasive, and Chavez is completely unable or unwilling to deal with that. He should care a lot less for loyalty of his police force, and a lot more about them doing their job.

It would undoubtedly cost him his office within a few years, but if he is concerned about the well-being of Venezuela, it's the only thing to do.

McHrozni
 
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