The warmers are becoming skeptics

[ideogram]

No, I'm not talking to you.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

No, I'm not talking to you.

May I suggest that you use the "quote" button. You will find it to the bottom right of the post you wish to respond to. It will avoid much confusion such as this occasion.

Who were you addressing?

 

[ideogram]

More evidence of Global Warming.

Do you understand the difference between climate and weather?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

I think you are off topic Ideotgram.

 

[ideogram]

Very well.

 

[ideogram]

How is the public supposed to evaluate scientific claims?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

That's been my point since the day I arrived here at JREF.
In short, they can't.

The messages are political and media driven. We have extremists on both sides (I ignore both btw) hijacking information and we have ideolists doing same to further their political ends.
We have scientists fiddling data and their detractors doing same.
Alarmists going 'one up' to get the headline and make a name for themselves with seemingly no one to stop them and their 'warmer' friends remain silent to these lies (goes the other way too btw).

Joe Sixpack has no chance sorting the wheat from the chaff.
And why should Joe believe one thing and not the other?
Why should Joe believe this expert ahead of that expert?
It is confusing.

Now, Joe votes - and the politician wants to keep his job, and the bureaucrat wants to please the politician, and the scientist wants to keep getting his funding from the bureaucrat - and so Joe's vote is important.

There is climategate, hockey sticks, alarmist predictions not coming true (time after time after time), wikipedia, and the IoP memo, IPCC errors and Pachuri's pornography to name but a few, and we ask..

How is Joe supposed to evaluate scientific claims?

So it's a good question and one I have been asking all along.

The only answer I see is to not let the activists and politicians get involved until the science is actually settled. Smarter people than me must be able to come up with balanced, better alternatives

Sadly that will not happen so ultimately, valid science, the public and the opportunity for genuine social reform are the losers.

 

[ideogram]

You understand what is at stake.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

More rhetoric and questions?

 

[ideogram]

I certainly don't have any answers.

 

[ideogram]

The only answer I see is to not let the activists and politicians get involved until the science is actually settled.

Science is never settled. Time is always a factor.

 

[Furcifer]

http://www.examiner.com/x-32936-Sem...bergs-growing-scarcer-reports-Washington-Post



You really need to read the list of quotes they give, folks. Some are doozies. Al Gore, eat your heart out. You were scooped.

Apparently it's not just me that doesn't "understand the science". 140 years of back and forth on which way the temperature is going. I guess this time they are right, if we don't act now to save the world it will be too late!

Climate change has been manipulated for years to incite the desired reaction in people.

 

[varwoche]

The messages are political and media driven.

If your sources consist of politicians and newspapers, this is true. Or one can look at the scientific literature.

We have extremists on both sides (I ignore both btw) hijacking information and we have ideolists doing same to further their political ends.

Again true. And again, you can circumvent by turning to the sources that matter -- the scientific literature.

We have scientists fiddling data

A grossly unfair generalization. Per usual, you damn an entire body of science based on the words of one or two individuals as if it's a Kevin Bacon board game.

Alarmists going 'one up' to get the headline...

In thread after thread you condemn unnamed alarmists. Some day maybe you'll break out of this fact-free mode of yours and provide a couple of examples. ("For instance" is a skeptic's friend, if the goal is communication and not vacuous posturing.)

Joe Sixpack has no chance sorting the wheat from the chaff.

If Joe Sixpack is intellectually lazy, sure.

There is climategate, hockey sticks, alarmist predictions not coming true (time after time after time), wikipedia, and the IoP memo, IPCC errors and Pachuri's pornography to name but a few, and we ask..

Joe needs to stop reading blogs written by nutcases like Wattsupmybutt and Lord Monckton and pay attention to actual experts.

How is Joe supposed to evaluate scientific claims?

If Joe is scientifically illiterate, he could look to primers from reputable sources such as NOAA. And he should be sure to steer away from this sort of crap.

The only answer I see is to not let the activists and politicians get involved until the science is actually settled.

Problematic for two reasons: (1) This is not doable in a free society and (2) the science is never settled.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Even more rhetoric and questions (oh and ad homs).

As usual, thanks for your considered and balanced input.

 

[Meed]

Good post, varwoche. I think that sums it up pretty well.

 

[bobdroege7]

Good post, varwoche. I think that sums it up pretty well.

I concur and applaud your continued efforts. I know I tried and failed at at least two things.
Like supporting your arguments and examining the actual science.

Maybe one day the pig will sing.

Or the horse will drink the water.

Both of those are way closer to an adhom then anything in the varwoche post.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Interesting isn't it.
I put up a post that (to the best of my ability) was honest and balanced and one side of the argument only is dismantled.

Smart horses don't drink from poisoned wells.

Blinkers should be removed from adult horses unless they have severe behavioural problems.

 

[ideogram]

Alfie, I agreed with you that your question is important.

But nobody has any answers to your question.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Alfie, I agreed with you that your question is important.

But nobody has any answers to your question.

Then why are they not being explored?
This is supposed to be an area for discussion, why do people not wish to discuss them.
I'm not compalining mind you, just my observations but the warm mongers are the worst, anything contrary to the party line is ridiculed with the usual groupthink mentality.
Sad really.

 

[ideogram]

What do you want me to say? I don't have any ideas.

I think it is unfair of you to put the blame only on the warmers. Can we agree there is stupidity on both sides in the interests of moving forward?