Only one conspiracy theory results in jail time

[timhau]

It's like if i saw someone robbing sylvia browne at gunpoint, i don't agree with robbing someone at gunpoint, but i choose to use my energy on people that are worthwhile.

At gunpoint? I might act (if there's a way to act without risking getting shot). I think a better analogy is seeing someone doing a con job on Sylvia Browne. Yeah, it's in principle very, very naughty, but I'd just love to stand there and watch.

 

[Saggy]

He saved over a thousand Jews. Why would he do this?

The Germans are a noble people?

OK, I clicked on your link ... to immediately read ....

'I knew something had gone terribly wrong .. they cut our hair real short and sent us to the shower. Our only hope was Schindler would find us.'

And I remembered a scene from the movie, that I didn't see but heard about .... the women go into the shower and start screaming ... and then water comes out of the pipes.

Do you understand what degenerate trash this is, both the quote from the website and the movie scene?

The women got haircuts, and showers, to PREVENT THE SPREAD OF TYPHUS.

In his short book 'Night' Elie Wiesel recounts being sent to the showers six times, expressly for the purpose of disinfection. He doesn't report any screaming.

Further, no one during WW II actually believed that the showers were 'homicidal gas chambers'. Certainly not the people in the camps. The only people who even pretended to believe it were the propagandists at the World Jewish Congress who were writing it.

 

[sadhatter]

At gunpoint? I might act (if there's a way to act without risking getting shot). I think a better analogy is seeing someone doing a con job on Sylvia Browne. Yeah, it's in principle very, very naughty, but I'd just love to stand there and watch.

I stick with the gunpoint analogy, though i understand it to be a bit extreme. I mean if it was someone i don't know i would step in, but for someone like her or zundel, well its nice to know sometimes government idiocy can effect knobs instead of just regular people.

 

[geni]

The only 'evidence' for the holocaust is the lies of degenerates.

E.g., pictures of typhus victims taken after the war are presented as evidence of the holocaust.

Bergen-Belsen? Not postwar but it's a given that your history would be complete rubbish.

Bergen-Belsen is not presented as a death camp but you have to run your camp with a complete disregard for the lives of the inmates to get it into the kind of condition that Bergen-Belsen was in.

We have been bombarded by these lies for 50 years.

So you accept pre-1960 evidence. Well no shortage of that.

 

[timhau]

The Germans are a noble people?

So noble to save people from... um, what, exactly? Kitchy Third Reich poster art?

 

[Skeptic]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Why would you ever need to be informed if you do call people liars and hoaxers? I mean, it's free speech, right?[/FONT]

Actually, it IS free speech.

One of freedom of speech's greatest unsung advantage is that it makes it easier to spot the idiots.

 

[Skeptic]

The Germans are a noble people?

But why would he have to save them at all if the holocaust is a hoax? They were in no danger, you know.

 

[Chaos]

Oh, we agree: but a lot of us are very uncomortable with making spreading ****** a criminal offense unless something more material is involved; ie, fraud,perjury, etc. Just shooting the guy's opinion down and ridiculing him is a better way.
Come to think of it, the Nazis felt they had a right to put people in jail for spreading what the Nazis consider ******. I have a real problem with giving the State that much power.

Do you enjoy taking my posts out of context?

Someone spreading BS is a good reason to reply to the poster and set the record straight.

The reason why I think Holocaust Denial should remain illegal is that it is libel - which I suppose is illegal in the US, too.

 

[VonKleist]

The Germans are a noble people?

OK, I clicked on your link ... to immediately read ....

'I knew something had gone terribly wrong .. they cut our hair real short and sent us to the shower. Our only hope was Schindler would find us.'

And I remembered a scene from the movie, that I didn't see but heard about .... the women go into the shower and start screaming ... and then water comes out of the pipes.

Do you understand what degenerate trash this is, both the quote from the website and the movie scene?

The women got haircuts, and showers, to PREVENT THE SPREAD OF TYPHUS.

Talking of the film Schindler's list, wouldn't you know it but here's ANOTHER SS man off to the gallows with nary a murmur about the Holocaust never happening. Hauptsturmfuehrer Amon Goeth (played in the film by Ralph Fiennes), tried the old 'only following orders' schtick and had a go at 'military necessity' but not 'it never happened your honour'. Was the SS composed entirely of suicidal Zionist idiots then?

Very strange this. It seems that the only people denying the Holocaust are people who weren't actually there.

 

[Liszt]

The reason why I think Holocaust Denial should remain illegal is that it is libel - which I suppose is illegal in the US, too.

Don't agree with that at all. That would be a slippery slope. What next? Lock up AGW deniers? CTists? Those FEMA camps just aren't big enough. There's only be Tommy left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_(album)

It is best to debate and debunk.

Also, it would mean an end to some of the more entertaining threads at JREF.

 

[TSR]

E.g., pictures of typhus victims taken after the war are presented as evidence of the holocaust.

.
And you know those people died from typhus ... how?

Still waiting for you over on the Plumbing thread...
.

 

[Moss]

The Talmud is obscenely racist, unbelievable for a 'religious' text.

Pot, say hello to kettle. You were describing "Mein Kampf" as "an accurate analysis of the troubles that beset post WW I Germany". It's all fine if it is your political religion, right?

Still wondering why Hitler had "Mein Kampf"'s editor Bernhard Stempfle murdered during the Night of Long Knifes.
Also why does Saggy always call people degenerates? The term is pretty pointless unless Saggy wants to insinuate the Jews he constantly calls liars and fabricators are also somehow subhuman.

 

[Chaos]

Don't agree with that at all. That would be a slippery slope. What next? Lock up AGW deniers? CTists? Those FEMA camps just aren't big enough. There's only be Tommy left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_(album)

It is best to debate and debunk.

Also, it would mean an end to some of the more entertaining threads at JREF.

It would be nice if you at least actually read what I wrote.

I said Holocaust Denial is libel. Every single "argument" for Holocaust Denial I have ever come across rests on the claim that people were and are knowingly spreading falsehoods about the events during WW2. And more: They´re accusing the Soviets of having murdered all those disappeared Jews. They´re accusing the Allies of "judicially murdering" innocent Nazis (innocent Nazis - an oxymoron if I´ve ever heard one). And so on and so forth.

And what the heck is there left to debate and debunk? The whole Holocaust Denier agenda has been exposed, each of their arguments shot down and taken apart in agonizing detail, over and freaking over again.

All right, I´ll grant you this: if there is ever a Holocaust Denier who presents an argument that isn´t dead, dissected, buried and decomposed already, he can present it as much as he wants, and I´ll graciously ignore the massive counts of libel he is racking up.

But as long as "debate and debunk" is used merely as an excuse to allow Nazi liars to spread their libel all over the place, I will NOT respect it, but rather expect them to reap what they sow.

 

[Liszt]

What sort of civilized society locks someone up for 7 years for libel? That's longer than a rapist normally serves.

 

[timhau]

I said Holocaust Denial is libel.

So, prosecute them using regular libel laws. However, that's not the route that was taken; they were prosecuted not for libel but for Holocaust denial. As I've said earlier, that is understandable, but it still shouldn't happen in a free society -- not like that.

I really, really hate to say anything that can be construed as standing up for these reprehensible morons, but freedom of speech is important.

 

[aggle-rithm]

The reason why I think Holocaust Denial should remain illegal is that it is libel - which I suppose is illegal in the US, too.

Libel (or slander) is a civil matter in the US, unless I'm mistaken. A person can sue for libel (or slander), but he has to show that he was materially damaged by the falsehoods written (or said) about him.

 

[aggle-rithm]

A thought just occured to me. A few years before Hitler came to power, he was forbidden to speak in public by the Weimar republic. Unable to pursue his favorite pasttime, he set to work organizing the Nazi party behind the scenes, forging it into a formidable state within a state. When the opportunity came for the Nazis to take over, they were able to do it swiftly and efficiently.

If Hitler had been allowed to simply continue to blow hot air, that may have been all that ever came of his ambitions.

 

[timhau]

If Hitler had been allowed to simply continue to blow hot air, that may have been all that ever came of his ambitions.

... and in all likelihood, some other form of extremism would have taken over. AFAIK the choice wasn't between a Weimar Republic -type democracy and the Nazis, but between the Nazis and other more-or-less organized thugs, e.g. the Communists.

 

[TSR]

So, prosecute them using regular libel laws. However, that's not the route that was taken; they were prosecuted not for libel but for Holocaust denial.

.
No, in fact Zundel was *not* prosecuted for Holocaust denial. He was convicted of inciting racial hatred.
.

As I've said earlier, that is understandable, but it still shouldn't happen in a free society -- not like that.

.
Nor did it.
.

I really, really hate to say anything that can be construed as standing up for these reprehensible morons, but freedom of speech is important.

.
Except for the teeny fact that no country on Earth allows complete freedom of speech. The Germans have chosen to draw their line based on their historical experience. You may disagree with that line, which is your right -- but they have the right to draw it, as well. It should be noted that I am not in favour of those countries which *do* outright criminalize denial. The proper way to deal with deniers is to point out their intellectual bankruptcy, then point and laugh.
.

 

[Moss]

A thought just occured to me. A few years before Hitler came to power, he was forbidden to speak in public by the Weimar republic. Unable to pursue his favorite pasttime, he set to work organizing the Nazi party behind the scenes, forging it into a formidable state within a state. When the opportunity came for the Nazis to take over, they were able to do it swiftly and efficiently.

If Hitler had been allowed to simply continue to blow hot air, that may have been all that ever came of his ambitions.

[Offtopic]Well, being prohibited to speak in public was the result of him trying to overthrow the Bavarian government in 1923. And he got off pretty lightly because the Powers that Were liked rightwing demagogues. Getting out of jail after 6 months instead of 5 years and not being convicted of high treason seems to have given him all the wrong ideas.[/Offtopic]