Choosing a Martial Art

[Kevin_Lowe]

Have you ever been in or, witnessed, a bar fight? Anybody who goes to the ground is in serious threat of getting their head kicked in by anyone with enough alcohol in them to think they are a baddass.

So no evidence at all?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Have you ever been in or, witnessed, a bar fight? Anybody who goes to the ground is in serious threat of getting their head kicked in by anyone with enough alcohol in them to think they are a baddass.

Yea, and anyone standing up is in serious threat of getting sucker punched as well. Did you do your research by watching Roadhouse?

 

[qayak]

Yea, and anyone standing up is in serious threat of getting sucker punched as well.

Yes but not nearly as big a threat as the guy on the floor.

Did you do your research by watching Roadhouse?

You have been waiting all thread to bring up your favourite movie and hero, haven't you? I suppose you are sitting in front of your computer fondling yourself at the mere thought of Patrick Swayze. You are a sick, sick, Thaiboxer!

 

[GreNME]

Let the phallus-waving begin!

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Grapplers tend to get their asses kicked in anything outside the ring.

What Phil Elmore really wants to say here is "anyone with a length of aircraft cable in their pocket."

 

[thaiboxerken]

 

[Cobalt]

Have you ever been in or, witnessed, a bar fight? Anybody who goes to the ground is in serious threat of getting their head kicked in by anyone with enough alcohol in them to think they are a baddass.

Yeah, you're right. There's absolutely NO BJJ technique that can be used standing.

Wait... maybe.... nah, none. My bad.

Nevermind that I suggested a basic boxing course as well, but, whatever.

Hell did you not read the last line of my post?

 

[lomiller]

Grapplers tend to get their asses kicked in anything outside the ring.

The full paragraph you lifted that quote from is:

Grappling by it’s very nature takes away most striking techniques, plus grapplers have can typically train at full speed and power against a resisting opponent using all their available techniques with reasonably low risk of injury. This makes for a pretty big advantage in any type of staged competition. Grappling techniques are not the best choice for a real street fight because you can’t count on everyone simply standing back and letting you go one on one.

 

[Leif Roar]

False. Other branches may refer to it as CQ or H2H training, but there are classes for it and I'm fairly certain that the US military has at least three or four inter-related martial arts training types it teaches.

Uh? What does that have to do with military drill?

 

[Meed]

Before firearms, there were wars and almost all of these wars were fought using martial arts.

So "martial arts" includes all weapons except firearms by your definition?

I've been using a colloquial meaning of the phrase (referring to unarmed fighting).

 

[Meed]

Not sure why you wouldn't count guns btw.

 

[Bikewer]

There are those (myself included) that think a practical martial art that does not include weapons training is lacking. Historically, practitioners of various sorts of weapons training thought of themselves as practicing "martial arts".
Also, what we think of today as (mostly Asian) MA usually includes some form of weapons training, if only at the upper levels of instruction. Even judo included instruction with various sticks including the "hanbo".
As I said earlier, a contemporary, practical course of study would include not only weaponry but training in the legal aspects of self-defense.

 

[qayak]

Yeah, you're right. There's absolutely NO BJJ technique that can be used standing.

I like how you need to change the definition of BJJ in order for it to be an effective self defence art. That alone makes it less than optimal.

As to all your other whining, I wasn't arguing with your points, I was simply stating a fact.

 

[qayak]

The full paragraph you lifted that quote from is:

The quote came from my experiences not from someone else.

 

[qayak]

There are those (myself included) that think a practical martial art that does not include weapons training is lacking. Historically, practitioners of various sorts of weapons training thought of themselves as practicing "martial arts".
Also, what we think of today as (mostly Asian) MA usually includes some form of weapons training, if only at the upper levels of instruction. Even judo included instruction with various sticks including the "hanbo".
As I said earlier, a contemporary, practical course of study would include not only weaponry but training in the legal aspects of self-defense.

I train in kobudo and I don't think there is much from them that can be used to defend oneself. How often will you find a sai, bo, tuifa, eku, etc., lying around.

Remember too, most of these weapons were not weapons, they were tools adapted to be weapons and it wasn't done by the military, it was done by civilians. Eku (oar), tuifa/tonfa (grindstone handle), etc.

Perhaps tetsu has some value but not too often you can be wandering around with a pair of tekko in your pocket.

Escrima on the other hand, effective and with a realistic chance of being applicable in real self defence.

 

[Meed]

There are those (myself included) that think a practical martial art that does not include weapons training is lacking. Historically, practitioners of various sorts of weapons training thought of themselves as practicing "martial arts".
Also, what we think of today as (mostly Asian) MA usually includes some form of weapons training, if only at the upper levels of instruction. Even judo included instruction with various sticks including the "hanbo".
As I said earlier, a contemporary, practical course of study would include not only weaponry but training in the legal aspects of self-defense.

Sure. There is no clear place where the line is drawn between what can and cannot be called "martial arts" though. E.g. Is bomb making a martial art? Is Tai Chi a martial art? I'm just using it in a general colloquial sense. I don't think training for warfare comes into most people's minds when they hear "martial arts".

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I like how you need to change the definition of BJJ in order for it to be an effective self defence art. That alone makes it less than optimal.

Say what? BJJ's always had standing grappling in it. BJJ tournaments start with both competitors standing. If you don't even know that much about the style I don't think you should be making pronouncements about what the definition of BJJ is.

 

[qayak]

Say what? BJJ's always had standing grappling in it.

Yeah and that's what BJJ is all about, stand up grappling.

BJJ tournaments start with both competitors standing.

Now, connect this to a point you are trying to make and maybe it will be important because, as it stands, it is completely irrelevent. One small aspect of a style does not define the style.

If you don't even know that much about the style I don't think you should be making pronouncements about what the definition of BJJ is.

I know a fair amount about the style but I am using the definition that BJJ practitioners use when describing their style and it is diametrically opposed to what you seem to believe. So I have to decide, do they know what they are talking about or do you. Based on the evidence, I have to go with them.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Yeah and that's what BJJ is all about, stand up grappling.

The focus is on ground grappling more so than standing grappling, particularly at the white belt level, certainly. However claiming that BJJ doesn't develop standing grappling skills is approximately as daft as claiming that judo doesn't develop ground grappling skills.

 

[qayak]

The focus is on ground grappling more so than standing grappling, particularly at the white belt level, certainly. However claiming that BJJ doesn't develop standing grappling skills is approximately as daft as claiming that judo doesn't develop ground grappling skills.

But several grades of daft below claiming that BJJ is a stand up art which is what I responded to. That claim is as ridiculous as claiming karate is really a ground grappling art.

And the claim I responded to was put forth in order to support the argument that BJJ is a realistic self defence art that can be effectively applied standing up. In general, BJJ uses stand up grappling as a means to get someone to the ground where they are much more effective. The trouble with going to the ground in a self defence situation is that it leaves you very vulnerable.