Chavez vs the USA

[Dandyone]

Former President Bush was ineffective stumblebum of a president. But I doubt Chavez could take him mano-a-mano.

I got an old shipmate that used to work at WHCA, and from time to time had to bring messages for the POTUS to sign acknowledgement receipt or some such. George Bush was in fantastic physical shape. Perhaps if he spent more time worrying about the ethical implications of his decisions instead of burning thousands of calories a day on the treadmill, things would have turned out differently.

Bush might be able to beat Chavez in an aerobics contest or a cheerleading competition or shoe ducking, (I must admit the little rat ducked two pretty good fastballs that were right on target) but I'd take Hugo and lay 5-1 in a fistfight.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

These people don't seem to mind.
[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Dachau-002edit.jpg[/qimg]

"Oh beautiful for heroes proved
In liberating strife
Whom more than self
Their country loved
And mercy more than life!"

 

[LightinDarkness]

I believe that the world would be a better place for all if the US would bring all their troops home and quit bombing people. Helping feed starving people would be a better way to spend our wealth. If you do a balance sheet regarding how much we spend on equipment and explosives that are specifically designed to KILL people and DESTROY property against how much we spend on humanitarian aid I bet it's about 1000 to 1. And speaking of humanitarian aid using such globalist organizations as the IMF or World Bank, you'll find that most of these "humanitarian" projects cause more harm than good, and are done for nefarious reasons. Read "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man". Perhaps you could learn something from someone who REALLY knows what is going on out there. But that would probably not be in lock step with the propaganda you deal in.

BZZT...wrong answer. The United States saves tens of millions through food aid and charity by Americans every YEAR. You can "think" what you like, but do you have any evidence? Nope.

By the way, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" is a hoax, it just tells CTs what they want to believe. Maybe you could learn something by doing real research instead of reading every conspiracy propaganda source that confirms your existing hysterical bias?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

OK since the end of WWII which countrys military has killed more people than the US.

China, the USSR, North Korea, Cambodia, Rawanda, Sudan, Ethiopia, Uganda and Somalia.

Which country has dropped more bombs on foreign nations?

USA... but they hardly hit anything. Most of them were dropped while mindlessly plowing up miles and miles of jungle.

I sure can't think of anyone that is even in the same league.

Stop trying to think of something and try reading and actually finding out.

The US dropped more bombs in Viet Nam than all of those involved in WWII combined.

They blew up a lot of trees for little or no gain. If they actually hit something, they might not have dropped so many.

And US troops have killed far more than ANY other country since '45.

Wrong again (see above).

Why is telling the truth "hate driven bs"?

Because it's not the truth.

 

[morgasm]

I'm taking bets; Chavez Vs. Bush, 10 rounds. Who ya got?

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Chavez strong out of the gate, but easily winded. I've already posted an account (albeit secondhand and anecdotal) of Bush's cardiovascular fitness, and his duck-and weave technique is well documented. Plus, he looks like he's got a head like a damned mountain goat.

 

[Dandyone]

"Oh beautiful for heroes proved
In liberating strife
Whom more than self
Their country loved
And mercy more than life!"

I'm sure the people in Baghdad were singing this tune while thier ancient and beautiful city was being utterly destroyed and ransacked. Spare me. LOL

 

[Dandyone]

China, the USSR, North Korea, Cambodia, Rawanda, Sudan, Ethiopia, Uganda and Somalia.



USA... but they hardly hit anything. Most of them were dropped while mindlessly plowing up miles and miles of jungle.



Stop trying to think of something and try reading and actually finding out.



They blew up a lot of trees for little or no gain. If they actually hit something, they might not have dropped so many.



Wrong again (see above).



Because it's not the truth.

How many people did the USSR Military kill since WWII and where? Who did the Chinese Military Kill, where, how many? Your figures and sense of history are quite askew. 3 million killed in Viet Nam and Cambodia directly related to the fact that we invaded their country. Our corporate soldiers have also been responsible for the continual bloodbath in central America holding down the banana fields for United Fruit since the early '50s.

I am not a fan of the USSR, The Chinese, or any tin horn African dictators, but I am an American and am thoroughly disgusted with how our young men have been abused for decades carrying the water and dying for a bunch of gutless, heartless, greedy chickenhawk corporate weapons manufacturers and banker scum.

General Butler had it right when he wrote, War is A RACKET. That is all it was then and it continues to this day. I have my opinion and you have yours. Yours is obviously fed to you by the Madison Ave propagandists who created and control our media, and sell the flag waving battle glory crap that you apparently eat up with a spoon. Mine comes from looking at the WHOLE picture, BOTH SIDES of these idiotic conflicts and seeing just what the heck is going on out there.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

I'm sure the people in Baghdad were singing this tune while thier ancient and beautiful city was being utterly destroyed and ransacked. Spare me. LOL

I hate jingoism too, but don't be daft.

You don't actually buy into the idea that Saddam-era Iraq was some sort of secular Middle Eastern paradise, do you?

I'm not justifying the motives for the ongoing operations there, but one shouldn't have Avatar-like delusions about that place.

 

[Dandyone]

Chavez strong out of the gate, but easily winded. I've already posted an account (albeit secondhand and anecdotal) of Bush's cardiovascular fitness, and his duck-and weave technique is well documented. Plus, he looks like he's got a head like a damned mountain goat.

Sadly this is a fight we'll never get to see. But I stand by my pick. I am pretty sure that GW is a gutless pussy. Maybe I'm wrong, that's just the impression I always got from him. Hugo comes off as the opposite.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Hugo comes off as the opposite.

Hugo's a tinpot blowhard, and not much more. I'm sure he thinks of himself as some kind of Simon Bolivar.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

We are getting off the topic here.

Em, you got us off-topic

As far as the US vs USSR phony cold war, it's the same as the new phony war on terror crap.

I suppose the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Berlin Crisis, KGB Active MEasures etc. disprove all of that. As well as Bin Laden's Fatwas and 9/11

Same Rothschild-Rockefeller-British Royals supported the USSR for the first part of the 20th century.

Evidence? Coz IIRC, Britain tried to overthrow the bolsheviks during the russian Civil War. Afterwards, there were Trade agreements and all that Jazz.

CIA-KGB worked hand in hand throughout the rest of the 20th century to make sure that NO indigenous people controlled their own rescources or governments.

Evidence? Coz the CIA/KGB were trying to get the one up on each other all the time. Read a bit of Ion Mihai Pacepa or Oleg Kalugin.

If we would have listened to Patton & MacArthur there would have been no USSR or Red China.

Advocating Mass Murder Eh? And Killing another hundred million? congratulations, you jsut wanted a war that was bloodier than the Eurasian War

If you care to notice, todays "Neo-Cons" are remnants of pro commies of the '50s and '60s and their offspring.

Neoconservatives were democrats who became disillusioned over the seeming weakness of the party towards the Soviet Union and other enemies.

Check out the background of that smarmy little scum Bill Kristol, or the once Ward Churchill like Michael Medved, Bernie Goldberg, or Norman Podhoritz.

So What does that prove?

That is for another thread.

As far as Chavez goes, he is just another indiginous Patriot who would like foriegn corporations to stay out of local politics.

Excuse me, he's a crackpot. He defended Idi Amin, Robert Mugabe , holocaust deniers and Kim Jong Il.

The same was true of Allende, and is true today of Evo Morales. Anyone who won't let international corporations control the natural rescources of a third world country is painted as a Marxist and then attacked.

He was a self described marxist and wanted "total, socialist, scientific marxism" when talking with Regis Debray. He was using the chilean constitution to blow his nose and the Chamber of deputies had their fill of him. He was also linked with the KGB, the East germans and the Cubans.

That has been happening for decades starting with Mosedeq in Iran, and who ever got in the way of United Fruit in Central America.

Mossadeq was removed because of cold war politics and United Fruit underwent Chapter 7 in the 70s IIRC.

The left right crap is just a con game and always has been. Same forces control both sides of the illusion.

No, you are deluded. Look at Healthcare.

I read your links and they are the same tired old neo-crap that can be seen and heard every day on Fox News and talk radio. You are not revealing any new info here.

I don't see how a respected journal such as the Christian Science Monitor, which has won many pulitzer prizes, is as bad as fox news.

What news outlets do you suggest then?

 

[NWO Sentryman]

How many people did the USSR Military kill since WWII and where? Who did the Chinese Military Kill, where, how many?

Let's see, there was the Cultural Revolution in China, the Afghan war, as well as the Eastern European uprisings and the Korean War.

Your figures and sense of history are quite askew. 3 million killed in Viet Nam and Cambodia directly related to the fact that we invaded their country.

They were mostly killed by the communists and the soldiers were on request from the South Vietnamese government.

Our corporate soldiers have also been responsible for the continual bloodbath in central America holding down the banana fields for United Fruit since the early '50s.

IIRC, the only us soldiers in that area were in either honduras, Costa Rica or Panama. Nothin to do with united fruit.

I am not a fan of the USSR, The Chinese, or any tin horn African dictators, but I am an American and am thoroughly disgusted with how our young men have been abused for decades carrying the water and dying for a bunch of gutless, heartless, greedy chickenhawk corporate weapons manufacturers and banker scum.

No, they died to protect the freedoms of millions around the world from the expansive communist threat. Nowadays, they are at war with another totalitarian ideology like Nazism or Fascism or Communism. Nothing to do with corporations.

General Butler had it right when he wrote, War is A RACKET.

Butler was a crackpot. He thought that any war EVER was at the behest of some secret cabal. Had he been president, he'd have let the Japanese and the Germans butcher Eurasia.

that is all it was then and it continues to this day. I have my opinion and you have yours.

no it doesn'. The US went into Iraq because of UN resolution violations. And Afghanistan/Pakistan because of those countries' links with Al-Qaeda.

Yours is obviously fed to you by the Madison Ave propagandists who created and control our media, and sell the flag waving battle glory crap that you apparently eat up with a spoon.

maybe because it's actually true?

Mine comes from looking at the WHOLE picture, BOTH SIDES of these idiotic conflicts and seeing just what the heck is going on out there

No, yours comes form death to america or conspiracy websites like thirdworldtraveler or globalresearch.ca

 

[Travis]

How many people did the USSR Military kill since WWII and where?

Hungary Uprising, Afghanistan, Angola.....conservatively many millions directly. Of course pure death tolls are meaningless. What matters is who's being killed and why.

Who did the Chinese Military Kill, where, how many? Your figures and sense of history are quite askew.

Wow, irony.

3 million killed in Viet Nam and Cambodia directly related to the fact that we invaded their country.

Um, no. First off most of those 3 million were killed by the communists. Secondly the US was there to defend an ally from invasion and subversion.

Our corporate soldiers have also been responsible for the continual bloodbath in central America holding down the banana fields for United Fruit since the early '50s.

I'm sure you have actual specific examples to share.

I am not a fan of the USSR, The Chinese, or any tin horn African dictators, but I am an American and am thoroughly disgusted with how our young men have been abused for decades carrying the water and dying for a bunch of gutless, heartless, greedy chickenhawk corporate weapons manufacturers and banker scum.

Oh, I get it, we're dealing with an "alternate history."

General Butler had it right when he wrote, War is A RACKET. That is all it was then and it continues to this day. I have my opinion and you have yours. Yours is obviously fed to you by the Madison Ave propagandists who created and control our media, and sell the flag waving battle glory crap that you apparently eat up with a spoon.

Ah yes, because we disagree with you we must have been brainwashed. It couldn't possibly be that you are the one that fell for skewed propaganda.

Mine comes from looking at the WHOLE picture, BOTH SIDES of these idiotic conflicts and seeing just what the heck is going on out there.

Actually it would appear you only looked at one side.

 

[332nd]

Let's see, there was the Cultural Revolution in China, the Afghan war, as well as the Eastern European uprisings and the Korean War.



They were mostly killed by the communists and the soldiers were on request from the South Vietnamese government.



IIRC, the only us soldiers in that area were in either honduras, Costa Rica or Panama. Nothin to do with united fruit.



No, they died to protect the freedoms of millions around the world from the expansive communist threat. Nowadays, they are at war with another totalitarian ideology like Nazism or Fascism or Communism. Nothing to do with corporations.



Butler was a crackpot. He thought that any war EVER was at the behest of some secret cabal. Had he been president, he'd have let the Japanese and the Germans butcher Eurasia.



no it doesn'. The US went into Iraq because of UN resolution violations. And Afghanistan/Pakistan because of those countries' links with Al-Qaeda.



maybe because it's actually true?



No, yours comes form death to america or conspiracy websites like thirdworldtraveler or globalresearch.ca

Oooooh, I see! The using actual history instead of the US has only done bad things history fallacy. Next you'll be telling us that wasn't responsible for 72 years of the Hundred years war!

 

[Hans]

As everyone knows everything that happens in the world is the fault of the CIA and America. As a matter of fact absolutely nothing happened before the creation of these two organizations...........

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

This thread is about Hugo Chavez, and the possibility of man caused earthquakes.

This is where your hatred and complete and utter disconnect from reality shines through. From a purely scientific viewpoint, believing in man-caused earthquakes is no different from believing in dragons and faerie dust. One might as well claim that a secret team of CIA black wizards caused the Haitian and Chilean earthquakes by impaling virgins upon their altar of darkness.

An earthquake as powerful as the one in Haiti involves the sudden movement of trillions of tons of rock. Their epicenters are typically miles underground and their effects are felt for hundreds of miles. The energy required to shake such a massive amount of rock is equivalent to the simultaneous detonation of millions of nuclear weapons. You could bury every nuclear device ever created in human history 8 miles down under Haiti and set them off all at once and that would only be a fraction of a percent of the energy that was released in the actual quake. And you would succeed in nothing more than knocking a few coffee cups off shelves in Port Au Prince.

~IF~ we were to assume that some secret weapon of the US government could do this and ~IF~ we were to assume that this was the most energy efficient device ever created, one that lost only one percent of its energy in the form of waste heat (by comparison, all coal, oil, gas and nuclear power plants lose 66% of their energy as waste heat) then the waste heat generated by firing this earthquake gun at the epicentre of the Haiti quake would be the equivalent of detonating the entire US nuclear arsenal at the secret facility where this uber-weapon is housed. The devastation from the earthquake guns waste heat alone would cause major climate change, a decades worth of global crop failures millions dead from it's immediate effects and millions more from resultant famines and no one would ever remember little old Haiti. About the only positive effect from this device for the conspirators behind it is the earthquake gun would effectively erase all evidence of its existence and whoever survived pulling the trigger would be free to concoct whatever cover story they wanted.

 

[angrysoba]

This is where your hatred and complete and utter disconnect from reality shines through. From a purely scientific viewpoint, believing in man-caused earthquakes is no different from believing in dragons and faerie dust. One might as well claim that a secret team of CIA black wizards caused the Haitian and Chilean earthquakes by impaling virgins upon their altar of darkness.

Yes, but he's saying that IF dragons and faerie dust exist then the US is the prime suspect to let the dragons loose on the idyllic utopia that Chavez constructed with his bare hands in Venezuala and the US would probably use the faerie dust to knock down the Twin Towers and Building Number Seven at freefall speed into their footprints so as to not to violate the laws of Fizziks and then they'd go and impale virgins upon their altar of darkness.

That's all he's saying and let's just ask questions about it, for Heaven's sake!!!1!

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Sword of Truth, i nommed you for TLA with that excellent post.

 

[Dandyone]

This is where your hatred and complete and utter disconnect from reality shines through. From a purely scientific viewpoint, believing in man-caused earthquakes is no different from believing in dragons and faerie dust. One might as well claim that a secret team of CIA black wizards caused the Haitian and Chilean earthquakes by impaling virgins upon their altar of darkness.

An earthquake as powerful as the one in Haiti involves the sudden movement of trillions of tons of rock. Their epicenters are typically miles underground and their effects are felt for hundreds of miles. The energy required to shake such a massive amount of rock is equivalent to the simultaneous detonation of millions of nuclear weapons. You could bury every nuclear device ever created in human history 8 miles down under Haiti and set them off all at once and that would only be a fraction of a percent of the energy that was released in the actual quake. And you would succeed in nothing more than knocking a few coffee cups off shelves in Port Au Prince.

~IF~ we were to assume that some secret weapon of the US government could do this and ~IF~ we were to assume that this was the most energy efficient device ever created, one that lost only one percent of its energy in the form of waste heat (by comparison, all coal, oil, gas and nuclear power plants lose 66% of their energy as waste heat) then the waste heat generated by firing this earthquake gun at the epicentre of the Haiti quake would be the equivalent of detonating the entire US nuclear arsenal at the secret facility where this uber-weapon is housed. The devastation from the earthquake guns waste heat alone would cause major climate change, a decades worth of global crop failures millions dead from it's immediate effects and millions more from resultant famines and no one would ever remember little old Haiti. About the only positive effect from this device for the conspirators behind it is the earthquake gun would effectively erase all evidence of its existence and whoever survived pulling the trigger would be free to concoct whatever cover story they wanted.

I never said that the US caused the Chile earthquake or any other earthquakes. I simply stated that Hugo Chavez has ample reason to distrust the US military and the CIA. As far as all your calculations regarding what it would take to cause an earthquake, the jury is definitely out.

There is a large body of data regarding so called 'scalar' technology that is not generally known to the public or admitted to by the US government. Several prominant Scientists are of the opinion that causing an earthquake using this technology is very plauseable, and they suspect that it has been done in the past. Here is a breif summary regarding the existence of such technology.

http://labvirus.wordpress.com/2010/01/24/a-brief-primer-on-scalar-weapon-technology/

There are links to a large body of research therein. It has NOTHING to do with "hatred or disconnect from reality". I simply don't let mainstream thought and propaganda define my reality as you obviously do. I suspect that "reality" is much different than what we were taught in our history classes or what is churned out by the major news/propaganda sources. You on the other hand seem to be in lock step with this so called reality that has been socially engineered into your psyche by the boys on Madison Ave and their masters at CIA which is nothing more than the US wing of disinfo for the international banking cabal. I wish you well in your future endeavors, and I'm sure you fit comfortably into your social and political habitat. As a wise man once said, "ignorance is bliss". Sleep tight.

http://labvirus.wordpress.com/2010/01/24/a-brief-primer-on-scalar-weapon-technology/