Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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headscratcher4 said:
It is irrelevent...the documents that Hawaii supplies and that Obama has provided is completely dispositive that Obama was born IN Hawaii. It is the only document that Hawaii issues. It is accepted for all legal purposes ... from civil to criminal...from getting a US passport to qualifying for state benefits. It is the same documentation that any and every citizen from Hawaii would get if they requested a copy of their birth certificate.

It is, in all ways and manners, a completely legally sufficient document to prove that Obama was born in Hawaii. And, when you combine it with other proofs...such as contemporaneous birth announcements in the newspaper...it is a complete slam dunk...
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Ann Dunham could have called from Kenya and told her mom to place the announcement in the paper. The address in the paper was the residence of the Dunhams not the Obamas. The Obamas never had a Hawaiian residence.
 
dtugg said:
You're just making **** up.
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They never lived together in Hawaii. They were never married except perhaps in Kenya. Obama Sr. took his second American wife Ruth to Kenya and married her there. This is likely what happened to Ann Dunham and there she had Barack Obama Jr.
 
MaGZ said:
They never lived together in Hawaii. They were never married except perhaps in Kenya. Obama Sr. took his second American wife Ruth to Kenya and married her there. This is likely what happened to Ann Dunham and there she had Barack Obama Jr.
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Again, just making **** up.
 
dtugg said:
Again, just making **** up.
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The supposed wedding they had in Hawaii had no witnesses, no marriage certificate exists.

They were never married in Hawaii, perhaps in Kenya in a tribal ceremony.
 
Nazi boy, what exactly do you think the point of them lying about be married in Hawaii is? You do realize that it has absolutely nothing to do with whether Obama Jr. is a US citizen, correct?
 
MaGZ said:
The supposed wedding they had in Hawaii had no witnesses, no marriage certificate exists.

They were never married in Hawaii, perhaps in Kenya in a tribal ceremony.
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If he was white,you wouldn't be doing this.Sieg Heil!!!
 
dtugg said:
Nazi boy, what exactly do you think the point of them lying about be married in Hawaii is? You do realize that it has absolutely nothing to do with whether Obama Jr. is a US citizen, correct?
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You need to do some research on the "Obama wedding".
 
MaGZ said:
Ann Dunham could have ....
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Ann Dunham "could have" had a sex change operation. She could have invented the internet. She could have traveled around the world in a sail boat solo. She could have memorized Miem Kamph and acted it out at a pupet theater on Saturdays. She could have been the second verson of the Virgin Mary. She could have been an alien lizard person. She could have...

Hitler COULD have been the grandson of a Jew. Hitler's family could have been rife with insest. Hitler could have escaped to Argentina. Hitler could have been a great artist. Hitler could have won if ...

Could have is why it is all irrlevent. The point remains. The Hawaii birth crerificate is DISPOSITIVE of his birth in the state of Hawaii. It is the required, recognized proof of birht and citizenship. It is the essential documentation required and the standard. The State says it is proof of his birth there and his citizenship. It is all any citizen from Hawaii needs. Period. There isn't a judge in the country who wouldn't accept that certificate as proof...and if there is, he/she should be disbarred.

There "could" be other documents. There are not.

Here again we see the positing of an alternative reality that is not based on any objective proof. Why deal in facts when the "could have..." solves all of your problems. It eliminates investigation. It eliminates fact. It eliminates the need to prove any assertion...the earth could be flat...

I think you believe that these little statements makes you seem clever or that you are getting something over on your readers...all it makes you seem is rather small and sad and rather venal. Maybe that is your goal...given your other posts, that COULD be exactly what you want us to conclude.
 
MaGZ said:
The supposed wedding they had in Hawaii had no witnesses, no marriage certificate exists.

They were never married in Hawaii, perhaps in Kenya in a tribal ceremony.
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Kenya tribal marriages are recognized all the world over as legal.
 
MaGZ said:
Ann Dunham could have called from Kenya and told her mom to place the announcement in the paper. The address in the paper was the residence of the Dunhams not the Obamas. The Obamas never had a Hawaiian residence.
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BTW...as an aside in the anything "could have" happened debate...you realize that a phone call from Mombassa to Hawaii in 1960 would have not only have been a big technical challenge but enormously expensive? Where was she "calling" from? How did she pay for it?

I know in my own family, as anecdotal not evidence, whenever my Aunt called from Switzerland when I was a child...in the early 1960s ... it was a huge deal in the family. Long distance and international calls were expensive and practically unheard of for average people. It was the kind of thing my parents told their neighbors and our relatives. These were calls from Europe to Michigan. I can only imagine how difficult it would have been to place calls between exotic locals like Kenya (what was the phone system like in Kenya in 1960? A country, btw, riven by violence and a rebillion) to another exotic local, Hawaii.

Strange, IMO, how Mrs. Dunham Sr. would not have related to other people how big a deal it was to have her daughter calling from Kenya/Mombassa
 
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MaGZ said:
Ann Dunham could have called from Kenya and told her mom to place the announcement in the paper. The address in the paper was the residence of the Dunhams not the Obamas. The Obamas never had a Hawaiian residence.
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Actually, this is false. Neither of the papers that ran those birth announcements ran them in columns that were open to ads placed by private parties. Both columns were generated automatically from the birth records submitted to the Hawaiian Dept of Health by Hawaiian hospitals. In other words, both papers simply ran complete lists of all births reported by hospitals in Hawaii for the given week. If you wanted to place a Personal Ad saying some specific message about a birth, it appeared in a quite separate section of the newspaper.

So to make your bizarre fantasy of Ann Dunham "placing" this birth announcement from Kenya work, you have to somehow imagine that the editors of the two Hawaiian newspapers were part of a vast conspiracy to ensure that Barack Obama would be erroneously regarded as a natural-born citizen--and that the conspiracy also included the Hawaii Dept. of Health at the time of his birth, the present-day Hawaii Dept. of Health, and the present-day Governor of Hawaii. In other words, you have to be a colossol idiot.

ETA: the facts cited above are easy to check, but I thought I might as well provide a reference. Here's a link to an article in the Honolulu Advertiser that specifies that
"Those were listings that came over from the state Department of Health," he said. "They would send the same thing to both papers."
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And here's another link with some more details:
In November 2008, The Advertiser reported that the first published mention of the future president appeared in a Sunday Advertiser birth announcement that ran on Aug. 13, 1961:
"Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy., son, Aug. 4."
The identical announcement ran the following day in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin.
Birthers wave off those birth announcements, saying that Obama family members 48 years ago could have phoned in false information to both newspapers.
Such vital statistics, however, were not sent to the newspapers by the general public but by the Health Department, which received the information directly from hospitals, Okubo said.
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headscratcher4 said:
Could have is why it is all irrlevent. The point remains. The Hawaii birth crerificate is DISPOSITIVE of his birth in the state of Hawaii. It is the required, recognized proof of birht and citizenship. It is the essential documentation required and the standard. The State says it is proof of his birth there and his citizenship. It is all any citizen from Hawaii needs. Period. There isn't a judge in the country who wouldn't accept that certificate as proof...and if there is, he/she should be disbarred.
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For some reason while reading this, I got the vibe ...

This issue is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you didn't keep bringing it up 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-ISSUE!!
 
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