Illegal observation in the Netherlands

MaGZ said:
One thing about Geert Wilders should be know. He is a stooge for the Jews and Israel, which explains his Islam bashing.
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I think it's safe to say this exemplifies the sort of thinking behind the prosecution of Wilders.
 
Abdul Alhazred said:
MaGZ said:
One thing about Geert Wilders should be know. He is a stooge for the Jews and Israel, which explains his Islam bashing.
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I think it's safe to say this exemplifies the sort of thinking behind the prosecution of Wilders.
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I see you have no problem with exposing yourself your own opinions as complete BS.

But while we're on the Wilders-Israel connection: Wilders is an Israel-fan and has visited the country numerous times. No problem. However, he has also praised the Israeli system of administrative detention and advocated it be also introduced in Holland. How's that for an alleged freedom-lover?
 
It's not about Wilders being a "freedom lover". It's about freedom of speech, even for freedom haters.

Because otherwise, the government can and will suppress anything by calling it "hate".

And it's always selectively enforced, thus my comment about why Wilder is being prosecuted.
 
Example of something specific I disagree with Wilders about: He says the Koran should be banned because it's like Mein Kampf. I say Mein Kampf should not be banned (as it is not in my country).
 
Captain.Sassy said:
The problem with racists like this guy and Steyn is that they equate muslims with islamist ideology. This guy's summons make that clear:


"‘A moderate Islam does not exist."

"The man is absolutely right. The Muslim population doubles with every generation – 25 years – and the number of Islamics in each and every European country is taking disturbing forms.’"


By extension, all muslims are fundamentalists. The only solution, and one implied by Steyn's chauvinist tracts, is to get rid of the muslims themselves.

"‘I have had enough of the Islam in the Netherlands: no more Muslim immigrants. I have had enough of the adoration of Allah and Mohammed in the Netherlands: no more mosques."

As I think I've pointed out before, this is akin to suggesting a way to deal with the gang problem in Los Angeles would be to deport black people.

It might be different in the US or Canada, but in Europe the Nazis came to power democratically while similarly promoting stereotypes of Jews. Checks and balances on democracy are perfectly acceptable, and I'm not convinced that 'freedom of speech' should be exempt from any kind of circumscription by law (though on the balance I do find myself in favour of freedom of speech, I find that instances like this one challenge my belief).

Anyways, for those with a fetishistic obsession with this liberty, this should be worth a chuckle (also from the summons):

"I have had enough of the Quran in the Netherlands: prohibit this fascist book."
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QFT.

I'd like to add this quote from Wilders to that:
no more Islamics in the Netherlands, many Muslims deported from the Netherlands, denaturalisation of Islamic criminals
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Never mind that most Muslims living in the Netherlands have the Dutch nationality. Let's deport them anyway. :jaw-dropp
 
Abdul Alhazred said:
It's not about Wilders being a "freedom lover". It's about freedom of speech, even for freedom haters.

Because otherwise, the government can and will suppress anything by calling it "hate".

And it's always selectively enforced, thus my comment about why Wilder is being prosecuted.
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You mean, how people who make anti-semitic remarks are regularly prosecuted, and Wilders is about the first to be prosecuted for anti-muslim remarks?

You know, it helps to know the context.
 
ddt said:
QFT.

I'd like to add this quote from Wilders to that:

Never mind that most Muslims living in the Netherlands have the Dutch nationality. Let's deport them anyway. :jaw-dropp
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That Wilders is an idiot, a jerk, and a racist is not reason to criminalize his thoughts. Oh, sorry, it's not his thoughts that are criminal, it's just when he says them out loud...

Sooner or later you guys will realize you can't control thoughts by criminalizing speech. Well maybe you can if you want to go to extreme lengths like North Korea and China do, but do you really want to be like NK and China?
 
WildCat said:
That Wilders is an idiot, a jerk, and a racist is not reason to criminalize his thoughts. Oh, sorry, it's not his thoughts that are criminal, it's just when he says them out loud...

Sooner or later you guys will realize you can't control thoughts by criminalizing speech. Well maybe you can if you want to go to extreme lengths like North Korea and China do, but do you really want to be like NK and China?
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FREE THIS GUY TOO:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200406/s1121440.htm

A man from Sydney's south-west has been charged over allegations he incited terrorism by producing a book of rules for carrying out holy war.

?
 
Abdul Alhazred said:
Example of something specific I disagree with Wilders about: He says the Koran should be banned because it's like Mein Kampf. I say Mein Kampf should not be banned (as it is not in my country).
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I'm sure Wilders is getting all sorts of fringe benefits from the Israelis like the Christian Zionists in America.
 
Skeptic said:
Yes. Free him. Writing a book is protected speech. If he had contacts with other Islamists to carry out the holy war, that is something else. But that would be action, not speech.
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Your evidence that this is protected speech in Australia?
 
Abdul Alhazred said:
Muslims? Or only neo-Nazis?

Are you aware the Weimar Republic had group libel laws?

Way to go Europe! :eek:
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Yes they had them and didnt act on them. Like you advocate.

But i fail to see your problem. These laws were made democratically and if the majority of the population of the country wishes them changed there are parties (including Wilders') that want that. They can be voted for.
So far these parties do not have the majority in parliment to do this.
Besides, Wilders has had no problem using the same laws to prosecute people advocating hate against him, so claiming he is only a victim of these laws is a bit of an oversimplification.
 
I advocate freedom of speech, not selective enforcement of restrictive laws. Big difference.

The very concept of freedom of speech seems to be outside the comprehension of Europologists.

This discussion reminds me of the reason why there can be no bank robberies in Germany.
In Germany, bank robberies are strictly verboten :cool:
 
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