Obama and Dems to go it alone on health-care reform, if GOP refuses to compromise

[WildCat]

A bill WITH the Public Option would make it more desirable for the American people. The bill lost of a lot of support when it began to resemble simply a big handout to corporations.

The main problem with the bill is it deals almost entirely with health insurance, and not the root cause of the problem - the cost of health care.

Piss and moan all you like about the cost of health insurance, but until pressure is brought to bear on reducing the cost of health care nothing will lower the cost of health insurance, not even a public option.

Do I need to remind everyone here once again that the total value of insurance company profits and overhead is less than 5% of the total cost of health care?

 

[Shalamar]

You're using the term “capitalism” to describe conduct that is not capitalistic, and which has no place in a capitalist society. It isn't government's place to loan money to private businesses in this manner. This is what banks, and other financial institutions are for. In a capitalist society, it simply isn't government's place to involve itself in this manner in the affairs of private businesses. Government trying to run business and industry is what brought down the Союз Советских Социалистических Республик. We certainly do not need to be allowing our government to do the same to this nation.

Why do you hate Capitalism so Much?

 

[Shalamar]

The money used to prop up General Motors, and ultimately to take ownership of it, belongs to us, the taxpayers. The government had no authority to squander and gamble it in this manner.

I suppose, ultimately, this points up the core of the problem that we have here. We've got a government that considers itself to be our master, rather than our servant, and which considers itself to be entitled to the fruits of our labor, to use as it will; and we've got a population that, for the most part, tolerates this.

[citation needed]

 

[Francesca R]

btw parky, what is it that you like about this bill?

pretty much all of it. [ . . . ]

Your fellow nationals don't like it. And I think your Senate rules are designed to kick out bills that don't have strong approval.

Looks like it would be an abuse of power in spirit, if not in letter, for the Democrats to ram something down Americans' throats that they dislike.

(I support universal healthcare, but I tend to agree with those that think this effort to implement it in the US has failed badly and should be abandoned)

 

[Thunder]

Your fellow nationals don't like it. And I think your Senate rules are designed to kick out bills that don't have strong approval.

umm.....err....that is not a national poll regarding the current Democratic plans for health-care reform.

try again....mate.

 

[Francesca R]

I don't think the American people like the bill. I think you want to force it through under the misguided idea that that will stop the Democrats looking useless in respect of this policy initiative. I'm coming to the view that for them to do that would be shameful. Kinda the opposite of having balls.

 

[Thunder]

I don't think the American people like the bill.

well, since it hasn't been released yet by President Obama, and a final bill hasn't been released by the Senate or the House, its kinda hard to tell how the American people will feel about it.

yes....the American people do not want a public-option right now. and that isn't gonna be in the bill.

 

[Skeptic]

Depends how much and what kind of a deficit hawk you are.

Yes -- I am not saying the tax cuts have NO expenses involved (as you say, running a large deficit is another problem). But it is bizzare that someone seems to think that "expensive bill" is any bill that makes the government spend more than it has -- regardless of HOW MUCH it is spending or HOW MUCH it takes from the public in taxes.

To give an extreme example, a government that collects no taxes at all and spends $1 is a totally different thing than a government that collects $1,000,000,000,000 and spends $1,000,000,000,001. The difference? A trillion dollars' of taxpayers' money.

 

[Skeptic]

I might be wrong here, but I think there is a very basic mistake in the Democrats' self-congratulatory claim that now the GOP will only "be seen as do-nothing obstructionists" and not "people who do something".

They seem not to understand that to a great many people, it is precisely the fact that the government IS trying so hard to do a few trillions' worth of "something" that is the problem, and that doing nothing (and leaving the system as it is) would be by far the better option, for all its faults.

The public's message to the democrats about health care, to judge by the polls, is the same as Calvin Coolidge's advice to one of his policy advisers: "Don't just do something! Stand there!".

 

[Thunder]

They seem not to understand that to a great many people, it is precisely the fact that the government IS trying so hard to do a few trillions' worth of "something" that is the problem, and that doing nothing (and leaving the system as it is) would be by far the better option, for all its faults.

yes, GOPers clearly feel that leaving the status quo is the best option. that way, more Americans can go bankrupt. more Americans can die. more Americans can be denied coverage. and corporate HMOs can keep increasing the billions in profits while raising premiums.

clearly, the status-quo is VERY good..for the GOP.

 

[novice skeptic]

yes, GOPers clearly feel that leaving the status quo is the best option. that way, more Americans can go bankrupt. more Americans can die. more Americans can be denied coverage. and corporate HMOs can keep increasing the billions in profits while raising premiums.

clearly, the status-quo is VERY good..for the GOP.

Is this really an argument?

 

[Newtons Bit]

Is this really an argument?

Yes, but it's from ignorance.

 

[Skeptic]

It never occurs to Parky there might be legitimate reasons to dislike Obamacare. You dislike it? You're evil or stupid, and that's that.

The Democrats keep losing elections because so many of their leaders have absolutely no understanding or empathy of the other side's arguments or concerns. Anybody who opposes them is the devil or a moron.

What a way to attract the public: "vote for us next time, you evil idiot!"
.

 

[thaiboxerken]

But it was not on so high profile a issue or something as big as Health Care.
Politics is about largely about appearence, and using Reconciliation is going to look like crap for the Dems. This time there WILL be a big stink about it.
But then, the Hard Line Partisans have never been real good at seeing things as those not so partisan might see them.
This, "By God, We Will Shove Health Care Down The People's Throats By Whatever Means Necessary, And They Will Like It!" attiude might cost the Dems the congress come November.

Perhaps, but it is the ONLY way health care reform will happen. The members of the GOP have already stated that they will vote no on any, and every proposal.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The Democrats keep losing elections because so many of their leaders have absolutely no understanding or empathy of the other side's arguments or concerns. Anybody who opposes them is the devil or a moron.

I don't agree. I think Dems lose elections because they don't do what people elected them to do. In this instance of healthcare, they are failing because they keep trying to get the "other side" to be a part of it.

 

[Thunder]

Is there ANYTHING in the two Democratic plans that our local Conservatives like? anything at all???

 

[applecorped]

Is there ANYTHING in the two Democratic plans that our local Conservatives like? anything at all???

Why do you care? The OP makes it clear that it doesn't matter if conservatives are on board or not.

 

[WildCat]

I don't agree. I think Dems lose elections because they don't do what people elected them to do. In this instance of healthcare, they are failing because they keep trying to get the "other side" to be a part of it.

I don't recall this exact bill being an election issue. If voters asked for a health care bill, what they got was sweetheart deals cut with big pharma, payoffs to big labor, and bribes to reluctant congresscritters.

The bill does nothing to address the source of 95% of medical costs, and that is on the health care side of the equation, not in the health insurance side.

Mandating people buy coverage which they can't afford is not a solution.

 

[Thunder]

The bill does nothing to address the source of 95% of medical costs, and that is on the health care side of the equation, not in the health insurance side.

Mandating people buy coverage which they can't afford is not a solution.

Let us know when the GOP comes up with a plan that insures more than 3 million Americans.

 

[Thunder]

Why do you care? The OP makes it clear that it doesn't matter if conservatives are on board or not.

as a patriotic American, I would like to see our politicians come together in some fashion, to pass a bi-partisan bill.

Even if we only get 4 Senators onboard, thats better then nothing.

But, if the GOP insists on "starting over", than they can forget it, and we will do it without them.