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What about this crop circle?

Stray Cat said:
If the mystery of where artists get their inspiration from is the only sign of anything paranormal happening, then we should expand that to all other artistic pursuits.
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http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_on_genius.html

It boils down to the primacy of consciousness.

And besides, the main difference between me and Peter is that he makes money from the circles and has a bit of a vested interest in keeping some sort of mystery alive because it's the mystery that attracts the vast majority of the audience.
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You sure toss around thinly veiled accusations easily and frequently.
 
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Limbo said:
Sure you are. You're accusing him of putting money before the truth. You're saying he's guilty of fraud, right?
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Please don't put words in my mouth that are not there.

Peter tells the truth, he takes people in to the fields and gives paid demonstrations of circlemaking, he takes on commissioned circles every year in the open.
If he wants to spin the 'muse' line, that's fine.
If people buy it, that's fine too.

Inspiration for artistic endeavor is not paranormal, but as it is clearly a subjective PoV, everyone is entitled to have their own take on it.
Peter does NOT falsely claim physical proof for anything, unlike BLT, Colin Andrews, Busty Taylor Freddy Silva etc.
 
Stray Cat said:
Peter tells the truth...
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How much of this is the truth:

“Surprisingly there is still a LOT of mystery — strange lights in the fields at night, telepathy in the creation of the designs, circle visitors affected profoundly both mentally and physically, and much more. Just because humans are flattening the crop, doesn’t mean that there’s no magic involved. In fact, in a way this just as wonderful — I mean, WE are the ETs! I feel sorry for the people who can’t get that.

“But deeper than that, I’m convinced that some esoteric Muse is working through many of the artists, guiding their work at night. Many great artists, poets and even generals credit the Muse for their inspiration. I think She is an intelligence that that has been looking out for humanity over the millennia, giving us gentle nudges to keep us on the path towards our destiny. That’s why the designs are so powerful that millions of people have had their lives uplifted by these ‘spiritual machines.’ They function similarly to Tibetan mandalas — which are also made by humans under the guidance of something higher. Whether on silk or a field of wheat, simply gazing at mandalas changes you."
 
Hi Limbo,

I hate to interrupt, but ... I think that if you did this, as suggested by Elizabeth I, you might find the interaction here a little more productive. Just a thought! :)

Quote:
This is what I think happens with crop circles:
1. _____
2. _____
3. _____

This is why I think so:
1. _____
2. _____
3. _____
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Limbo said:
How much of this is the truth:

“Surprisingly there is still a LOT of mystery — strange lights in the fields at night, telepathy in the creation of the designs, circle visitors affected profoundly both mentally and physically, and much more. Just because humans are flattening the crop, doesn’t mean that there’s no magic involved. In fact, in a way this just as wonderful — I mean, WE are the ETs! I feel sorry for the people who can’t get that.

“But deeper than that, I’m convinced that some esoteric Muse is working through many of the artists, guiding their work at night. Many great artists, poets and even generals credit the Muse for their inspiration. I think She is an intelligence that that has been looking out for humanity over the millennia, giving us gentle nudges to keep us on the path towards our destiny. That’s why the designs are so powerful that millions of people have had their lives uplifted by these ‘spiritual machines.’ They function similarly to Tibetan mandalas — which are also made by humans under the guidance of something higher. Whether on silk or a field of wheat, simply gazing at mandalas changes you."
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It is Peter's opinion, you'd have to ask him how much he thinks is truth. I imagine he'd say all of it.
 
carlitos said:
Hi Limbo,

I hate to interrupt, but ... I think that if you did this, as suggested by Elizabeth I, you might find the interaction here a little more productive. Just a thought! :)
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Hi Carlitos, I'll do that.

This is what I think happens with crop circles:

Archetypes from humanity's collective unconscious express themselves.

This is why I think so:

Stuff I've read, stuff I've experienced.
 
Limbo, could you stop being rude and answer my question: what do you think is going on? We're in the General Skepticism and The Paranormal forum, so what are you skeptical of, or what paranormal thing do you think is happening? Answering this will provdide far more useful information than displaying your ignorance about human toilet habits. Thank you.
 
Thanks for answering. So this is just "general skepticism" and not paranormal then. I think some of the folks here weren't getting where you were coming from.

I enjoyed learning about crop circles though. :)
 
Stray Cat said:
It is Peter's opinion, you'd have to ask him how much he thinks is truth. I imagine he'd say all of it.
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And you imagine that he's wrong, because you've made crop circles and you've never seen any telepathy or strange lights or mystery. And you imagine that if there were mysterious psychic paranormal effects to be experienced, then you would have experienced them as well as Peter. What makes Peter so special and me not, says you.
 
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Archetypes from humanity's collective unconscious express themselves.
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What does this mean?

What is "humanity's collective unconscious"?

Where is it stored?

How can it be accessed?

How can it be perceived?

How is this different from someone's using something he's seen/read/heard/felt/smelled as a springboard for something else?

Is "Ode on a Grecian Urn" an example of "humanity's collective unconscious expressing itself" or is it Keats' emotional response to something he found beautiful?

What about Picasso's "Guernica"?

What about Pride and Prejudice and Zombies?

What about the fact that there are about 8 jillion artistic representations of the Holy Virgin?

Where do you draw the line?
 
Limbo said:
And you imagine that he's wrong, because you've made crop circles and you've never seen any mystery. And you imagine that if there were mysterious paranormal effects to be experienced, then you would have experienced them as well as Peter. What makes Peter so special and you not?
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I have seen plenty of mystery surrounding crop circles, just not the same one other people see. It's not people's belief in the paranormal that piques my interest, it's in people's presentation of claimed physical proof because every time physical proof is claimed, it is easily refuted. Peter knows this and therefore keeps his claims well within the bounds of subjectivity, this doesn't make him wrong at all, it means that he's expressing a belief and not trying to share some sham physical proof of that belief.
 
Stray Cat said:
I have seen plenty of mystery surrounding crop circles, just not the same one other people see.
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If you say so.

It's not people's belief in the paranormal that piques my interest, it's in people's presentation of claimed physical proof because every time physical proof is claimed, it is easily refuted.
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Spoken like someone who does not grok the trickster archetype, someone who does not grok the sheep-goat effect. Proof that is easily refuted, resulting in the marginalization of the phenomenon is exactly what I would expect from a genuine phenomenon. Psi effects take place against a psychic background of conflicting human beliefs and desires, conflicting emotion and archetypes, and that chaotic conflict prevents psychic phenomenon from becoming so strong it can't be disbelieved. Belief and disbelief are psychic elbow-grease in a universe in which mind is primary. Like ours.
 
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Quote:
This is what I think happens with crop circles:
1. _____
2. _____
3. _____

This is why I think so:
1. _____
2. _____
3. _____
Click to expand...

Limbo,
I would like an answer to this one too.

BTW: How close are the old roadways, aquifers, chalk, greensand, etc.
And is it possible to make a crop circle without being near on on some of it?

As far as I know it would be quite hard to fit even a small a crop circle anywhere in England without some cerealologist making an occult connection to something nearby.
 
Snail shells reveal evidence of complex proportions, Fibonacci sequences of numbers, etc and so forth. But this doesn't mean people collect them for those reasons .... people like them because they are pretty and aesthetically pleasing/interesting. And this doesn't mean that snails are advanced alien life form conspirators either.

Likewise, a person doesn't have to understand music theory or even how to read music for that matter in order to sit down and be able to play a piano ... I can play the piano without reading a single note and some of the pieces I compose are quite complex. This doesn't make me a prodigy or a genius or advanced either, just because I can play by ear and compose without having any technical understanding of wtf I'm doing.

Sometimes people sit down, draw a pretty picture, and it turns out to represent some amazing s***. And sometimes people use whatever artistic form of expression they have available just for the challenge ... like making crop circles. It's no different than making "the worlds largest hot dog" and putting it on display in your yard or something. It's just for the fun of making the thing, and also to get attention and say, "look what I did". And some people get off on anonymity. It adds to the mystique for them.

And the other night I stayed up for six hours just to finish my "master spaceship" I was building out of my son's legos. Even when I needed to stop and go to the bathroom I didn't because I was "in the zone" and focussed on making my spaceship as cool as possible. Why did I do it? Was I creating a structure that was an advanced form of engineering based on alien design? I did it for fun ... as an outlet and escape from the everyday world. It was fun to sit and play with toys and build things out of shapes with my imagination.

So if crop circles inspire you for whatever reason ... that's cool, they were obviously made to be noticed and looked at. And if you see aliens in them and whatnot ... they could just be inspiring your imagination. Like art. But without further proof that there really are aliens/chuppacabaras/ whatever behind them .... it remains in the realm of your imagination. The most logical and consistent explanation is that peeps did 'em. The shapes in those clouds are just that ... and you can't prove that the shapes have a purpose either ... they just inspired your imagination for now.
 
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trentwray said:
And the other night I stayed up for six hours just to finish my "master spaceship" I was building out of my son's legos. Even when I needed to stop and go to the bathroom I didn't because I was "in the zone" and focussed on making my spaceship as cool as possible. Why did I do it? Was I creating a structure that was an advanced form of engineering based on alien design? I did it for fun ... as an outlet and escape from the everyday world. It was fun to sit and play with toys and build things out of shapes with my imagination.
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If only you had known that "humanity's collective unconscious" was expressing itself through you, just imagine what you could have done!
 
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