• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

What about this crop circle?

It makes perfect sense that aliens do not start making complicated fractal shapes before computers and internet have advanced enough to make them easily recognisable by layman. They would not want a breakdown in communication, would they. [/:tinfoil]
 
Spoken like someone who does not grok the trickster archetype, someone who does not grok the sheep-goat effect. Proof that is easily refuted, resulting in the marginalization of the phenomenon is exactly what I would expect from a genuine phenomenon. Psi effects take place against a psychic background of conflicting human beliefs and desires, conflicting emotion and archetypes, and that chaotic conflict prevents psychic phenomenon from becoming so strong it can't be disbelieved. Belief and disbelief are psychic elbow-grease in a universe in which mind is primary. Like ours.

Some mayonnaise with that word salad sir?

Look around the forum and tell me that I don't "grok the trickster archetype"
 
It makes perfect sense that aliens do not start making complicated fractal shapes before computers and internet have advanced enough to make them easily recognisable by layman. They would not want a breakdown in communication, would they. [/:tinfoil]
So that's why the Nazca lines were so simplified then ....

If only you had known that "humanity's collective unconscious" was expressing itself through you, just imagine what you could have done!
Well I must admit that initially I frantically built a huge volcano type of shape out of the legos, humming this strange 5 note tune to myself .... and the thought occurred to me that I was channeling a close encounter of a third kind to give me formulas on how to defeat Tom Cruise perhaps ... :boxedin::D
 
Limbo,
I would like an answer to this one too.


1) Crop circle and "ball of light" (BOL) reports date back as far as 1678, with about one hundred prior to 1980.

2) As many as 10,000 crop circles known since 1976.

3) Crop circles appear in tobacco, oilseed, rapeseed, wheat, barley, oats, flowers and most other agricultural crops, as well as ice, snow, sand and trees.

4) Crop circles appear in over 70 crop-growing countries; only mainland China and South Africa have not reported the phenomenon.

5) Large, complex formations are known to occur in as little as 30 minutes, according to signed affadavits. At least one crop circle design was reported to have been added on to while researchers were in the field.

6) 99+ percent of all formations are never shown to have been mechanically hoaxed (no videos exist of their creation, no pre-announcement was made, etc.).

7) Physical anomaly: Node length increases on plants were found to decrease exponentially with distance from the formation's center, in accordance with the Beer-Lambert principle of absorption of electromagnetic radiation by matter.

8) Physical anomaly: Node length increases on plants were found to decrease exponentially with distance from the formation's center, in accordance with the Beer-Lambert principle of absorption of electromagnetic radiation by matter, and also to extend outside the formation into standing grain.

9) Physical anomaly: Significant changes in germination, or seedling growth, rates. Growth rates in seeds taken from crop formation plants range from no germination at all to markedly increased growth of seedlings.

10) Balls of light (BOLs) are commonly reported in association with crop circles. Many are captured on video and in still photography. BOL movements are clearly non-random.

11) Physical anomaly: Grossly enlarged (both laterally and longitudinally, up to 200-300% over controls) plant stem nodes.

12) Physical anomaly: Marked bending of the plant stem nodes, from as little as 10 to an extreme of 90 or more, occurring at some or all of the nodes of a stem.

13) Physical anomaly: "Expulsion cavities" (holes at the plant stem nodes blown from the inside-out).

14) Physical anomaly: Malformed seed-heads, in which in some cases the seeds are missing or, more often, in which the seeds are severely stunted.

15) Physical anomaly: Abnormal enlargement of cell wall pits in bract tissue (the thin, protective membrane surrounding the developing embryo).

16) Physical anomaly: Perfectly round silicon dioxide "microspheres" have been found in formations. Similar "cenospheres" are found to be the result of the coal burning process. Spherules observed to increase in concentration linearly from center to edge of circle.

16) Physical anomaly: the most extreme node length increases are found in the less geometric, more randomly-downed crop formations.

17) Physical anomaly: Concentrations of meteoritic dust (magnetite) at levels up to 600 times naturally-occurring levels have been found in formations

18) Physical anomaly: In the Cherhill formation, a thin layer of metallic material was found glazed on the crop and underlying soil, resulting in magnetized leaves, heads, stems and soil.

19) Physical anomaly: Fluxgate magnetometer surveys conducted on seven large formations showed increased magnetic field intensity (up to 300% of Earth's normal field) within the formations.

20) Novel mathematical information is included in the geometry of crop circles.(6); Details O Consistent with phenomenon operating outside constraints of present scientific knowledge. Assumes coordinated, as yet unidentified hoaxing team accidentally or purposely conveying previously unknown natural laws.

21) The difference between the primary sizes of the most striking crop circles represents the identical ratio between consecutive notes on the musical scale.

22) Physical anomaly: In a 1997 Dutch formation in a carrot field, leaves of the same plant laid in opposite directions, as if by a "combing" action.

23) Downed stems in 1997 Dutch formation found resting perpendicularly through "curtains" of standing grain.

24) Swirled "tufts" of grain at centers of many circles have intertwined stalks.

25) Footprints are not found in many formations when they are first discovered, even in formations with soft sand.

26) Physical anomaly: Burn marks often found in crop circles.

27) Physical anomaly: Bent and dehydrated stems are often found in crop circles.

28) Physical anomaly: Anomalous "pitting" is found in crop circles.

29) Physical anomaly: In one formation, stunned and exploded insects were found stuck to seedheads.

30) Physical anomaly: Equipment malfunctions, erratic behavior of magnets and compasses, and physical side effects are common in and around formations

31) Physical anomaly: At the center of seven large circles the radiation measured 40-50 nanoTeslas, or ten times the radiation level of a normal field.

32) Physical anomaly: Sand rings which appeared in Oregon in 1994 showed anomalous anion level changes.

33) Physical anomaly: "Imprints" of formations sometimes appear in fields in following seasons.

34) Physical anomaly: High levels of short-lived isotopes (the non-naturally occurring yttrium-88 and bismuth-205) have been found in crop circle soil samples.

35) Physical anomaly: Narrow tracks of dehydrated grass bent 20cm above the ground leading out of formations

36) Some formations imprinted on sloping or otherwise uneven ground are often adapted to the land so as to appear geometric only from above.

37) Most formations are symmetrical and circular, often with connective paths.

38) Eyewitnesses reported a "great column of luminosity" as it descended from a dark cloud near Alton Barnes in England. The column lasted only a few seconds and spread out sideways as it collapsed toward the ground. The column then briefly assumed the shape of a pictogram found later at Hackpen Hill five miles due north.

39) According to a 1993 North American Institute for Crop Circle Research (NAICCR) report, dozens of crop circle witnesses claim to have observed "strong, spiraling downdraughts" in connection with crop formations.

40) Eyewitness reported watching a flock of geese fly over a field in which a formation had recently appeared. Upon passing over the field, the geese split and then reformed over the circle.

41) Frequently, a high-pitched sound or "trilling" either preceding or accompanying a formation is reported by witnesses in the vicinity of the crop circle.

http://www.controversial-science.com/#anchor80167
 
Some mayonnaise with that word salad sir?


"Word salad is a mixture of randomly chosen words that, while arranged in phrases that appear to give them meaning, actually carry no significance."

None of those words were chosen at random.

Look around the forum and tell me that I don't "grok the trickster archetype"


You don't grok the trickster archetype.
 
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Wow! - From Word Salad to Wall O' Text in one easy move.

Most of that wall has already been knocked down in previous pages.
And none of it seems to really fit in with what you were trying to say earlier this evening.

In one breath you acknowledge that humans are making crop circles and then you want to show (by use of spurious/fictional nonsense) how they couldn't be.
 
87% of all formations in England occurred above an aquifer, and this figure rose to nearly 93% for the area of Britain south of a line from the Bristol Channel to the Wash.

You could say the same about everything--simply because the aquifer is underneath almost everything.
 
Limbo, why do you continue to refuse to answer straightforward and on-topic questions?

Do you think the fashion, music, TV and snowboarding requires a global coordinating body since people from all over the world tend to go through similar fads in those endeavors?

Do you think my joggling requires paranormal activity since I do it for no pay, it's difficult and time consuming (and I do it in all weather)?

Most importantly, what do you believe about crop circles and what is the evidence for your position?
 
I did, in post 509. But that wasn't enough for you, so I gave you a wall of text.

You mean this?

This is what I think happens with crop circles:

Archetypes from humanity's collective unconscious express themselves.

This is why I think so:

Stuff I've read, stuff I've experienced.

Please explain how that differ from groups of people with a sense of humor, string, skis, and a evening off?
That is, a perfectly mundane explanation.
 
In one breath you acknowledge that humans are making crop circles and then you want to show (by use of spurious/fictional nonsense) how they couldn't be.


I acknowledge that humans make paranormal and non-paranormal crop circles. I acknowledge that humans make paranormal UFOs too. By psychically projecting unconscious archetypal material from the mind onto matter, in a mind-over-matter/energy type way. Our little ego-personality-self is none the wiser, it tends to think it's all coming from "out there" - ET or God or something.
 
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Limbo said:
Archetypes from humanity's collective unconscious express themselves.

Do you have any evidence for such a thing as a "collective unconscious"?

Does this involve the paranormal?
 
I acknowledge that humans make paranormal crop circles. I acknowledge that humans make paranormal UFOs, pretty much the same way. By psychically projecting unconscious archetypal material from the mind onto matter.


It's like pulling teeth getting a straight answer out of you. Why didn't you give this response about 3 or 4 pages ago?

At any rate, so you're claiming that it makes more sense to think that humans use some sort of PSI power to knock over crop plants to make these patterns than the mundane methods which have been amply demonstrated?

Again, what is your evidence for this? (Please say what the evidence is rather than list a bunch of bleever book titles or simply mentioning "stuff I've read".)

The evidence that crop circles are made by mundane means is overwhelming, so you really have to do much much better than that.
 
1) Crop circle and "ball of light" (BOL) reports date back as far as 1678, with about one hundred prior to 1980.

2) As many as 10,000 crop circles known since 1976.

3) Crop circles appear in tobacco, oilseed, rapeseed, wheat, barley, oats, flowers and most other agricultural crops, as well as ice, snow, sand and trees.

4) Crop circles appear in over 70 crop-growing countries; only mainland China and South Africa have not reported the phenomenon.

5) Large, complex formations are known to occur in as little as 30 minutes, according to signed affadavits. At least one crop circle design was reported to have been added on to while researchers were in the field.

6) 99+ percent of all formations are never shown to have been mechanically hoaxed (no videos exist of their creation, no pre-announcement was made, etc.).

7) Physical anomaly: Node length increases on plants were found to decrease exponentially with distance from the formation's center, in accordance with the Beer-Lambert principle of absorption of electromagnetic radiation by matter.

8) Physical anomaly: Node length increases on plants were found to decrease exponentially with distance from the formation's center, in accordance with the Beer-Lambert principle of absorption of electromagnetic radiation by matter, and also to extend outside the formation into standing grain.

9) Physical anomaly: Significant changes in germination, or seedling growth, rates. Growth rates in seeds taken from crop formation plants range from no germination at all to markedly increased growth of seedlings.

10) Balls of light (BOLs) are commonly reported in association with crop circles. Many are captured on video and in still photography. BOL movements are clearly non-random.

11) Physical anomaly: Grossly enlarged (both laterally and longitudinally, up to 200-300% over controls) plant stem nodes.

12) Physical anomaly: Marked bending of the plant stem nodes, from as little as 10 to an extreme of 90 or more, occurring at some or all of the nodes of a stem.

13) Physical anomaly: "Expulsion cavities" (holes at the plant stem nodes blown from the inside-out).

14) Physical anomaly: Malformed seed-heads, in which in some cases the seeds are missing or, more often, in which the seeds are severely stunted.

15) Physical anomaly: Abnormal enlargement of cell wall pits in bract tissue (the thin, protective membrane surrounding the developing embryo).

16) Physical anomaly: Perfectly round silicon dioxide "microspheres" have been found in formations. Similar "cenospheres" are found to be the result of the coal burning process. Spherules observed to increase in concentration linearly from center to edge of circle.

16) Physical anomaly: the most extreme node length increases are found in the less geometric, more randomly-downed crop formations.

17) Physical anomaly: Concentrations of meteoritic dust (magnetite) at levels up to 600 times naturally-occurring levels have been found in formations

18) Physical anomaly: In the Cherhill formation, a thin layer of metallic material was found glazed on the crop and underlying soil, resulting in magnetized leaves, heads, stems and soil.

19) Physical anomaly: Fluxgate magnetometer surveys conducted on seven large formations showed increased magnetic field intensity (up to 300% of Earth's normal field) within the formations.

20) Novel mathematical information is included in the geometry of crop circles.(6); Details O Consistent with phenomenon operating outside constraints of present scientific knowledge. Assumes coordinated, as yet unidentified hoaxing team accidentally or purposely conveying previously unknown natural laws.

21) The difference between the primary sizes of the most striking crop circles represents the identical ratio between consecutive notes on the musical scale.

22) Physical anomaly: In a 1997 Dutch formation in a carrot field, leaves of the same plant laid in opposite directions, as if by a "combing" action.

23) Downed stems in 1997 Dutch formation found resting perpendicularly through "curtains" of standing grain.

24) Swirled "tufts" of grain at centers of many circles have intertwined stalks.

25) Footprints are not found in many formations when they are first discovered, even in formations with soft sand.

26) Physical anomaly: Burn marks often found in crop circles.

27) Physical anomaly: Bent and dehydrated stems are often found in crop circles.

28) Physical anomaly: Anomalous "pitting" is found in crop circles.

29) Physical anomaly: In one formation, stunned and exploded insects were found stuck to seedheads.

30) Physical anomaly: Equipment malfunctions, erratic behavior of magnets and compasses, and physical side effects are common in and around formations

31) Physical anomaly: At the center of seven large circles the radiation measured 40-50 nanoTeslas, or ten times the radiation level of a normal field.

32) Physical anomaly: Sand rings which appeared in Oregon in 1994 showed anomalous anion level changes.

33) Physical anomaly: "Imprints" of formations sometimes appear in fields in following seasons.

34) Physical anomaly: High levels of short-lived isotopes (the non-naturally occurring yttrium-88 and bismuth-205) have been found in crop circle soil samples.

35) Physical anomaly: Narrow tracks of dehydrated grass bent 20cm above the ground leading out of formations

36) Some formations imprinted on sloping or otherwise uneven ground are often adapted to the land so as to appear geometric only from above.

37) Most formations are symmetrical and circular, often with connective paths.

38) Eyewitnesses reported a "great column of luminosity" as it descended from a dark cloud near Alton Barnes in England. The column lasted only a few seconds and spread out sideways as it collapsed toward the ground. The column then briefly assumed the shape of a pictogram found later at Hackpen Hill five miles due north.

39) According to a 1993 North American Institute for Crop Circle Research (NAICCR) report, dozens of crop circle witnesses claim to have observed "strong, spiraling downdraughts" in connection with crop formations.

40) Eyewitness reported watching a flock of geese fly over a field in which a formation had recently appeared. Upon passing over the field, the geese split and then reformed over the circle.

41) Frequently, a high-pitched sound or "trilling" either preceding or accompanying a formation is reported by witnesses in the vicinity of the crop circle.

http://www.controversial-science.com/#anchor80167

I see. You believe this because a website said so, even though many of these things have been debunked already for you on this very thread.

Basically, you believe because you want to believe, and then you cite stuff like this after the fact. (That's what's known as an apologia or apology. It's typical of dogmatically held beliefs. You try to construct arguments to prove proposition that you already believe are true rather than following the evidence to the most likely conclusion, whatever it may be. It's actually the opposite of being open-minded.)
 
I acknowledge that humans make paranormal and non-paranormal crop circles. I acknowledge that humans make paranormal UFOs too. By psychically projecting unconscious archetypal material from the mind onto matter. Our little ego-self is none the wiser.
And I would say that humans project all these things onto what ever they wish to believe in, in the same way they have done since they first started to ask questions about the way stuff works and invented religions in order to explain what they didn't know or didn't understand.
It seems you are still at the pretend friend point.

But I also see you're talking yourself round in circles (ironically).
Because the Wall O' Text you posted (and I assume you agree or accept in some way) seems to imply that as circlemakers, we can levitate enabling us to not leave footprints, we can knock over plants with the force of a stomping board and yet delicately bend (without breaking) the stems/nodes at the same as elongating them, whilst balls of light spin wildly around us... and yet at the start of this thread, we couldn't possibly do the work without needing to take a dump or go out in the rain... What gives?
 
I acknowledge that humans make paranormal and non-paranormal crop circles. I acknowledge that humans make paranormal UFOs too. By psychically projecting unconscious archetypal material from the mind onto matter, in a mind-over-matter/energy type way. Our little ego-personality-self is none the wiser, it tends to think it's all coming from "out there" - ET or God or something.
Well then you need to settup a test to see if one can be produced through such means. Perhaps you can gather a group of those who have had crop circles appear on their property to collectively attempt to create one?

Even if this hypothesis is true (considering it hypothetically for the moment) ... you would have to find what links them all together ... what is the common threads amongst the formations and the people associated with them?

You would essentially need to gather as much information as you could about the "shapes in the clouds" ... and then settup a test to see if you could create a similar, definite, shape in a cloud. If you can't ... then you revise the test in accordance with more data or go with the more logically accepted explanations ...
 

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