Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[X]

6)Gospel writer Luke showed remarkable attention to detail verified through historical and archaelogical evidence and was called one of the world's greatest historians with regard to things that can be proven by historical and archaeological evidence.

hiliting mine


Wow, DOC! You included the caveats!
Good job!

This still doesn't provide evidence that the Bible is true, though. No more than the inclusion of historical events, persons, places and structures in Victor Hugo's Les Miserables is evidence that the story is true.

I have no problem with the idea of swatting DOC on the nose with a newspaper, but I sincerely hope you're joking about treating your dog this way. As you say, your dog has no idea why you're doing it, and cannot make the connection you desire.

To clarify:
1) I would never hurt my doggy.
2) She's been house-broken for 10 years now. (My girl is getting old)
2) The swat was intended only to get her attention, never to cause pain.
3) She was only ever disciplined if caught during the act. Dog's can't connect event/consequence for past events.
4) My mother did most of the house-training. Not me.
5) I realize the newspaper was likely unnecessary, and would not use it now. But what's long done is done.
6) Rusty says "hi". Well, it came out as "woof,", but it means "hi".

 

[realpaladin]

I don't have an ignore list, not yet anyway.

I said within 300 years of the beginning of Christianity. She was born around 350 ad.

*bump*

Jezus. By Longinus (and chums).

 

[Lothian]

Bingo!

Row 4: 7, 17, 26, 37, 42.

Well done I will start work on the prize.

I have made you an avatar that may be of use at some point in the next 4-5 weeks. Hope you like it (I did say the prize would be low value!) .

 

[carlitos]

wow

If you wrote 13 chapters (Paul wrote 13 biblical books) in the greatest selling book of all time and were called a spiritual genius in a religious encyclopedia like Paul was, I might take a closer look at your claim.

I'm glad you realize his book was fiction, But people like Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama don't believe the bible is fiction.

DOC, what I quoted up there is an "appeal to authority." It is a logical fallacy, not a valid argument. You can look up appeal to authority^WP online in several places. I am not making this up.

The fact that you ignored my last 2 or 3 posts, coupled with the continued logical fallacies, makes your thoughts almost completely worthless in my eyes. I totally understand why people have so little opinion of you that they are now playing bingo with your posts. That is really all they are good for. You should not be proud of this.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

I said within 300 years of the beginning of Christianity. She was born around 350 ad.

Granted Hypatia was murdered by a Christian mob in 415 CE. Even if you want to use 33 CE when your prick of a "savior" allegedely got his just deserts (the self-righteous always get nailed in the end), that's only a scant 82 years difference from your entirely arbitrary "300 year" figure. In my book, that's close enough. If she had been murdered in 335 CE, would that still be within acceptable tolerances? Is so, why?

Of course, how long from whenever Christianity started isn't the really issue. The issue is that a pack of followers of your "peaceful" and morally superior "Messiah" mercilessly slaughtered an innocent woman just because she was a "pagan" philosopher.

How can you glibly ignore that fact?

 

[paximperium]

Granted Hypatia was murdered by a Christian mob in 415 CE. Even if you want to use 33 CE when your prick of a "savior" allegedely got his just deserts (the self-righteous always get nailed in the end), that's only a scant 82 years difference from your entirely arbitrary "300 year" figure. In my book, that's close enough. If she had been murdered in 335 CE, would that still be within acceptable tolerances? Is so, why?

Of course, how long from whenever Christianity started isn't the really issue. The issue is that a pack of followers of your "peaceful" and morally superior "Messiah" mercilessly slaughtered an innocent woman just because she was a "pagan" philosopher.

How can you glibly ignore that fact?

His apologetics and demands are not arbitrary. He picked his demand for 300years because he KNOWS, there is no records of any violence done by this insignificant cult. We've been through this before.

 

[joobz]

His apologetics and demands are not arbitrary. He picked his demand for 300years because he KNOWS, there is no records of any violence done by this insignificant cult. We've been through this before.

exactly. he gets to claim any sort of fiction he wishes about the cult of christ during that time. For instance, he intentionally avoids commenting on the fact that there were MULTIPLE conflicting cults of christ at the time. Some more peaceful than others. Which ones do you think spread?

 

[Akhenaten]

His apologetics and demands are not arbitrary. He picked his demand for 300years because he KNOWS, there is no records of any violence done by this insignificant cult. We've been through this before.

It should be becoming increasingly obvious that we've been through everything before, not because of DOC's apologetics and demands, but in spite of them.

As much has DOC has tried to obfuscate, twist, redefine and lie his way out of explaining a total lack of evidence for the truth of the New Testament, the facts have been revealed anyway.

He can bluster all he likes about what he's presented, he can pretend to himself all he wants that he's a competent debater, he can ignore us, lie about what other people have said and rabbit on about how many posts he's made, but at the end of the day, almost quarter of a million times this thread has been viewed and he hasn't convinced one single person of anything, other than the fact that the NT is most likely completely made up out of whole cloth.

As a rabid atheist, I doubt that any amount of work I could do would be more effective in destroying the credibility of that which DOC purports to be true than he has himself.

The only thing that prevents me from pitying him is the arrogant manner in which he's conducted his case, starting, I believe, with his very first post.

Pathetic is the nicest word I can think of to describe it.

 

[Kapyong]

Gday,

The word vision is your word not the Bible's when referring to Paul.

The Greek word "opthe" IS in the bible - it means "appearance" - i.e. Jesus APPEARED in a VISION.


Paul makeds it clear it's revelayion and visions :

For I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel that was proclaimed by me is not of human origin; for I did not receive it from a human source, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ [...] But when God, who had set me apart before I was born and called me through his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me, so that I might proclaim him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with any human being.
—Paul's Letter to the Galatians 1:11-12, 15-16

"And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me."

They didn't hear the voice - it was a spirit voice of a vision to Paul.

There are THREE versions of Paul's conversion - all slightly different.

If it was a vision other people would not be seeing a light that made them afraid.

The light WAS a vision.

And Pax and Hok don't talk about different verses having different accounts. I've already shown there is no discrepancy in a past post.

Did the others fall over?
Did they see a light?
Did they hear the voice?

The stories are all quite different.


K.

 

[Kapyong]

Gday,

1)There are 9 non-Christians sources for Christ and or Christianity within 150 years of his birth similar to the 9 non-Christian sources for the life of Tiberius Caesar, the Roman Emperor at the time of Christ.

But nothing contemporary, unlike Tiberius for whom we have much contemporary evidence.

But strangely, not even one CHRISTIAN claims to have met Jesus.

2) There are around 5000 manuscripts of the New Testament compared to 7 for Plato and 20 for famous Roman historian Tacitus.

There are MILLIONS of copies of Mao's Little Red Book from shortly after it's writing - much much more than the NT, and much much closer in time.

4)Thousands of lives have been drastically changed for the better by Christianity.

Thousands of lives have been drastically changed for the better by Islam.

5)Christianity grew rapidly by peaceful means in the brutal Roman Empire.

Christianity grew slowly by forceful politics.

6)Gospel writer Luke showed remarkable attention to detail verified through historical and archaelogical evidence and was called one of the world's greatest historians with regard to things that can be proven by historical and archaeological evidence.

Harry Potter's author showed remarkable attention to detail verified through historical and archaelogical evidence.


K.

 

[Kapyong]

I've always known it, even when I talk about the 11 apostles who were martryed. Their deaths do not prove Christianity but their martyrdoms increase the likelihood there was a resurrection over a situation where there was no martyrdoms. Therefore it can be considered some evidence.

The maytyrdoms are MYTH,

and they never met Jesus anyway !

NOT ONE SINGLE Christian claimed to have personally met Jesus !

Just the forged 2nd century 2 Peter which insisted they "were not following fables". Obviously by then, sceptics were saying they WERE following fables.

Such as :

Celsus, in late 2nd century, attacked the Gospels as fiction based on myths :
"Clearly the christians have used...myths... in fabricating the story of Jesus' birth...It is clear to me that the writings of the christians are a lie and that your fables are not well-enough constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction"


K.

 

[kmortis]

Personally, I think the devil made him do it. That one line was just so out of place with the rest of the thread.

I had to read it a few times to confirm that he'd actually said something that was true.

Just a weird anomaly, I guess.

Oh, no. Our DOC is capable of so much more. What with the claim that the Native Americans are "better off" due to Christian missionaries, his tacit support of slavery etc.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

His apologetics and demands are not arbitrary. He picked his demand for 300years because he KNOWS, there is no records of any violence done by this insignificant cult. We've been through this before.

That's what figured. I just wanted to see if he'd ignore me again, or come up with some new excuse.

DOC's excuses are sooooo entertaining.

 

[Hokulele]

If you wrote 13 chapters (Paul wrote 13 biblical books) in the greatest selling book of all time and were called a spiritual genius in a religious encyclopedia like Paul was, I might take a closer look at your claim.

Ah, so you admit that Paul did not write Hebrews. At least that is some progress.

Too bad you already forgot that it has been shown that several other of Paul's letters were forgeries.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Ah, so you admit that Paul did not write Hebrews. At least that is some progress.

Too bad you already forgot that it has been shown that several other of Paul's letters were forgeries.

Did anyone mention that Chairman Mao's Little Red Book has sold as many copies as The Bible with no differences in translation between any of them, and all 33 chapters were written entirely by Chairman Mao? Wouldn't this make Little Red Book even more accurate and truthy than The Bible? And Chairman Mao even more trustworthy as a historian?

 

[Hokulele]

Did anyone mention that Chairman Mao's Little Red Book has sold as many copies as The Bible with no differences in translation between any of them, and all 33 chapters were written entirely by Chairman Mao? Wouldn't this make Little Red Book even more accurate and truthy than The Bible? And Chairman Mao even more trustworthy as a historian?

Why, no. That is a very interesting fact that you have put out there for everyone to examine and use to attack DOC help make up their own minds. I wonder what C.S. Lewis would have thought about Chairman Mao. Or shrimp. Or Buddhism.



(Something tells me that my devious plan to win Bingo isn't working very well.)

 

[carlitos]

I got some bad sushi on Friday, and it still has me down. I have no plans to give up shrimp. If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao...

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Why, no. That is a very interesting fact that you have put out there for everyone to examine and use to attack DOC help make up their own minds. I wonder what C.S. Lewis would have thought about Chairman Mao. Or shrimp. Or Buddhism.



(Something tells me that my devious plan to win Bingo isn't working very well.)

(I would help, but I'm still not quite sure how the bingo calling is working...)

 

[carlitos]

re: CS Lewis

I am so pissed off that I can't find my "Chronicles of Narnia" box set paperbacks. I loved those books, and wanted to read them again. The only other books from my childhood that have similar meaning are "The Great Brain" series.

 

[Hokulele]

C.S. Lewis also wrote some rather unique science fiction stories (Out of the Silent Planet, et. al.). He had some very odd ideas as to what scientists do and think, and I really, really, really wish I could find the letter Arthur C. Clarke wrote to C.S. Lewis regarding his misconceptions. It was truly classic.