Some dweeb nobody knows whines about food in America

[tsig]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/65415.php

http://www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2005/document/pdf/brochure.pdf

From your links:

"•
Make smart choices from every food group.
•
Find your balance between food and physical activity.
•
Get the most nutrition out of your calories."

Don't stumble and you won't fall

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

From your links:

"•
Make smart choices from every food group.
•
Find your balance between food and physical activity.
•
Get the most nutrition out of your calories."

Don't stumble and you won't fall

So you gave up after the pep talk introduction? Yes, this brochure is vague on actual serving sizes but it was trying to be useful to a variety of caloric range diets. The focus was on balancing foods through variety and making sure to get a bit of everything necessary while cutting back on the less than necessary. If you want I can link you to CDC/USDA info that gives a flat out serving size intended for the "average american" based on age and sex instead of a guidelines on how to figure out what is appropriate to an individual's needs.

This link is more comprehensive: http://www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2005/document/default.htm

This link is more direct: http://www.mypyramid.gov/pyramid/vegetables_amount_table.html

 

[Dorian Gray]

Can Jamie Oliver please explain the difference between preparing local and non-local foods?

I have two heads of cabbage in my pantry. One was grown locally, the other was not.

How should my preparation be different?

It's not preparing the food that's different.

 

[Dorian Gray]

And besides, Jamie Oliver had Jamiroquai on his show. Emeril "pork fat rules" Legasse had Sammy Hagar. Advantage: Oliver.

 

[pgwenthold]

It's not preparing the food that's different.

Then why did Jamie Oliver say that we need to teach people how to prepare locally grown foods?

 

[Cavemonster]

Then why did Jamie Oliver say that we need to teach people how to prepare locally grown foods?

Supermarkets should appoint "food ambassadors" to explain to customers how they can prepare local, fresh and seasonal foods.

pgwenthold,

He's talking about things like planning menus based on what's locally in season, and yes continuing through to healthy ways to cook it. Things like "Hey, cabbage is in season now so you can get some great fresh ones over there. Here's a great, low fat and tasty cabagge recipe that uses other local, in season veggies. You'll want to make that within a few days to take advantage of the fresh cabbage, and then you can use the leftovers in this soup recipe"

He's looking at the broader scope of "preparing", including choosing and planning, and finally cooking, but it is that whole broader scope that emphasises local, fresh and seasonal.

 

[fuelair]

No, that's exactly what's happening.

How do you think children -- people in general -- learn to like and eat food? Not by being "persuaded" into it, but by trying it. If the deep, pure, wisdom of childhood has informed you that spinach is icky, then you won't eat spinach if there's an alternative. If you give most children a choice between fries and spinach, they'll eat the fries, which is terrible, and they won't even taste the spinach.

If you only offer them the spinach, they'll more or less have to eat it, and a number of them will find out that they like spinach.

This is especially true if the spinach actually tastes good, which is more likely to be the case if it's both fresh (local helps here) and well-prepared. Simply boiling canned spinach until it surrenders isn't very good -- as a chef, Mr. Oliver knows a lot of interesting and fairly cheap things that can be done easily to preserve and enhance the flavor and texture.

Once the kids learn (forcibly) that spinach doesn't suck, they'll be more likely to eat it elsewhere. I.e. they're learning better eating habits, which is healthier.

I really don't see what the problem is except for the problem that a foreign expert knows more than some of the rather defensively provincial posters in this thread.

... who resent it.

I have actually been vaguely wondering if some might be in the business of providing food items to school cafeterias - and, therefore, have a dog in this fight.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

I have actually been vaguely wondering if some might be in the business of providing food items to school cafeterias - and, therefore, have a dog in this fight.

I would be surprised if no for profit interests added their opinion to this debate. I'm sure local farmers would love to steal these contracts away from the competition. Schools are the next best thing to a captive audience.

 

[GreyICE]

Oh no, someone might make money in America. Better shoot em.

 

[fleabeetle]

Would it help if I said that, on-screen, at least, he comes across as a fat-tongued Mockney twat?

This, and other thoughts cited about his irritating public persona: I concur --talented chef, heart in the right place, but comes across as a jaunty-cum-raffish annoying twerp. His idiosyncracies of vocabulary especially bug me: particularly grates on me, his going on about putting into the pan a "lug", or "lugs", of olive oil. To me, exhibitionist dorkery plus "Humpty-Dumpty syndrome" -- having words mean whatever one chooses that they should mean...

 

[Travis]

First off, I've never heard of this Oliver guy but he sounds like someone I'd want to punch in the face. I hate "eat healthy" advocates. I encountered so many self righteous vegans in college that I made the "eat healthy" movement my enemy for life!

I'm not sure how well his initiative would work anyways. Here in California only the poor kids eat lunches provided by the school and some schools have stopped doing even that because of budget cuts. If you weren't poor you had to bring a lunch from home. That's what I had to do.

I also don't understand the "buy local" part. How does one even do that? Here in California all our farms are owned by huge corporations so even if your town is surrounded by tomato fields to get one of those local tomatoes will require waiting for it to first be transported to processing centers hundreds of kilometers away then to distribution centers before being trucked back to the supermarket. By the time any locally grown food comes back it might have traveled a thousand kilometers or more. Some of the food will be diverted on it's way back to farmers markets where naive yuppies will pay more for it under the pretense of it being "locally grown."

The supermarket ambassador idea is also stupid. Whenever anyone tries to give me "nutrition advice" in a market it just makes me incredibly angry. It just brings all those memories from college flooding back and I nearly become overcome with rage.

 

[fuelair]

Oh no, someone might make money in America. Better shoot em.

You do keep trying. The point overall is not about making money or how one makes money. The point is, rather, about whether we want healthier kids - and I suspect most of us do. The point about people in the debate against any attempt to control available foods is they MIGHT have a financial interest that is strong enough that they argue against the various control proposals only BECAUSE they make money from pizza, candy bar/ soda sales without noting they do. I am not in and do not have any financial investments in healthy foods so my only fighting dog here is the health aspects.

By the by, I have nothing against making money - besides my regular job I have a side business. I guarantee I get no support of any kind from the government on it - like all other small business people, the republickers could not care less about me and other small businesses. The difference between me and most small business owners is I know that.

ETA: Neither, in all fairness, do the Democrats - on an individual business level. But the Democrats do not, as functional policy, act against the interests of small business to build up Big Businesses. I have no trouble with not supporting me specifically, I have a lot of problem with actively favoring Big Business at the expense of small businesses.

 

[fuelair]

First off, I've never heard of this Oliver guy but he sounds like someone I'd want to punch in the face. I hate "eat healthy" advocates. I encountered so many self righteous vegans in college that I made the "eat healthy" movement my enemy for life!

I'm not sure how well his initiative would work anyways. Here in California only the poor kids eat lunches provided by the school and some schools have stopped doing even that because of budget cuts. If you weren't poor you had to bring a lunch from home. That's what I had to do.

I also don't understand the "buy local" part. How does one even do that? Here in California all our farms are owned by huge corporations so even if your town is surrounded by tomato fields to get one of those local tomatoes will require waiting for it to first be transported to processing centers hundreds of kilometers away then to distribution centers before being trucked back to the supermarket. By the time any locally grown food comes back it might have traveled a thousand kilometers or more. Some of the food will be diverted on it's way back to farmers markets where naive yuppies will pay more for it under the pretense of it being "locally grown."

The supermarket ambassador idea is also stupid. Whenever anyone tries to give me "nutrition advice" in a market it just makes me incredibly angry. It just brings all those memories from college flooding back and I nearly become overcome with rage.

No offence Travis but there is a giant difference from Vegans giving nutrition advice and people in supermarkets. You might want to try to control that rage - especially since an awful lot of people look to the place that sells food products to suggest ways of using it both for taste and health effectiveness- and the ones in the supermarket are not likely to chase you around screaming "bacon is murder and the cheese just covers it up!!!" or similar phrases ("ketchup should be a co-defendant!!" ; "that hamburger is cow with 3rd degree burns!!" "Baaaahhhh to sheep killers!!", etc.). To continue in my temporary spirit of cooperation and information provision: I have given info on cooking and nutrition in supermarkets and other locations - but never for pay - for some reason, people in stores and other locations seem to feel I look very knowledgeable and I do get asked for opinion/info very often. Since I actually do know a lot about a lot of things I am generally quite happy to venture opinion/data.

 

[Eskarina]

First off, I've never heard of this Oliver guy but he sounds like someone I'd want to punch in the face. I hate "eat healthy" advocates. I encountered so many self righteous vegans in college that I made the "eat healthy" movement my enemy for life!

Whoa! Equating eating healthy with veganism is quite a strawman, don't you think? A burger can be a healthy meal with a salad on the side. Same goes for a steak. Or any meaty or fishy dish. The "Bacon explosion" doesn't count. It's beyond.

I'm not sure how well his initiative would work anyways. Here in California only the poor kids eat lunches provided by the school and some schools have stopped doing even that because of budget cuts. If you weren't poor you had to bring a lunch from home. That's what I had to do.

I think the point is about raising awareness. In Germany, school usually ends at 1pm and the kids eat at home. Whether you get the schools or the parents to prepare wholesome meals doesn't really matter, as long as the meals are "wholesome".

I also don't understand the "buy local" part. How does one even do that? Here in California all our farms are owned by huge corporations so even if your town is surrounded by tomato fields to get one of those local tomatoes will require waiting for it to first be transported to processing centers hundreds of kilometers away then to distribution centers before being trucked back to the supermarket. By the time any locally grown food comes back it might have traveled a thousand kilometers or more. Some of the food will be diverted on it's way back to farmers markets where naive yuppies will pay more for it under the pretense of it being "locally grown."

I live in Germany. Oranges, bananas and tomatoes are imported the whole year; apples, salsify, kale, cabbage is locally grown. Guess which leaves a bigger carbon footprint.

The supermarket ambassador idea is also stupid. Whenever anyone tries to give me "nutrition advice" in a market it just makes me incredibly angry. It just brings all those memories from college flooding back and I nearly become overcome with rage.

The horror of learning something new. The HORROR.

 

[GreyICE]

First off, I've never heard of this Oliver guy but he sounds like someone I'd want to punch in the face. I hate "eat healthy" advocates. I encountered so many self righteous vegans in college that I made the "eat healthy" movement my enemy for life!

I'm not sure how well his initiative would work anyways. Here in California only the poor kids eat lunches provided by the school and some schools have stopped doing even that because of budget cuts. If you weren't poor you had to bring a lunch from home. That's what I had to do.

I also don't understand the "buy local" part. How does one even do that? Here in California all our farms are owned by huge corporations so even if your town is surrounded by tomato fields to get one of those local tomatoes will require waiting for it to first be transported to processing centers hundreds of kilometers away then to distribution centers before being trucked back to the supermarket. By the time any locally grown food comes back it might have traveled a thousand kilometers or more. Some of the food will be diverted on it's way back to farmers markets where naive yuppies will pay more for it under the pretense of it being "locally grown."

The supermarket ambassador idea is also stupid. Whenever anyone tries to give me "nutrition advice" in a market it just makes me incredibly angry. It just brings all those memories from college flooding back and I nearly become overcome with rage.

Really? I hope this is hyperbole, because if this is honest... wow.

 

[casebro]

I read so much bad about my diet that I've finally decided to give it up. Reading, that is.

There is this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166623 about how saturated fat is NOT so strongly linked to heart disease. The culprit will be something as ubiquitous as red meat. I eagerly await finding it out. Sub-clinical allergy is my bet.

There are other threads about how higher fiber is just about useless in extending the average life expectancy. Or how cutting red meat will do nada about stomach cancer.

It turns out that even being overweight is beneficial to longevity, if not diabetic. Healthy BMI range is anywhere between 17-35.

I just don't think that most people have anything to benefit by paying anydamn attention to "NUTRITION".

I suspect the biggest point is to eat a varied diet. Not just chicken, but also pig, beef, fish, shell fish, crustaceans. Not just wheat flour and sucrose, but potatoes, rice, squash, sweet potatoes, fruit. Not just unsaturated fats, but fats from all sources- lard is very high in mono-unsaturates, coconut oil is short chains, fish oil is omega whatevers...

I'm thinking the body needs occasional infusions of everydamnthing.

There are 100,000 items in a grocery store, but most folks buy the same ten over and over, and use them to cook ten different meal combinations.

So, to that extent, cooking shows and recipe books are good ideas.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

The varied diet is actually what the CDC and most science based health organizations support. To an extent, this is part of what Oliver is talking about.

The body appears to do best when it has a little bit of everything. This is nothing shocking nor new. Oliver is not bringing in new information, he is focused on programs that support what we already know and making sure children understand the practical application of the knowledge.

I feel some people are railing against his suggestions somewhat emotionally. In regards to schools his suggestions break down into two basic goals. The first is having school practice what they preach. The second teaching the practical application of nutritional knowledge (cooking, food choice, ect). As for the supermarket and food industry suggestions it might not be as practical. There are a few different markets I shop at locally. On one end is a store that focuses on bulk and cheap. The other is more upscale and focuses on its fresh local products in addition to all of the regular supermarket goods. The second sounds like the perfect candidate for having a nutrion specialist on hand to give advice. I agree, not just snidely clucking at what is in our baskets but being available to give advice.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

It'll be interesting to see how it goes in the USA all the same, fighting against the "Not Invented Here" attitude on top of everything else.

Actually nothing he is saying is unique or new here in the US. We have many people advocating already for such changes.

 

[fuelair]

Actually nothing he is saying is unique or new here in the US. We have many people advocating already for such changes.

Including some US chefs!!

 

[arthwollipot]

Whoa! Equating eating healthy with veganism is quite a strawman, don't you think? A burger can be a healthy meal with a salad on the side. Same goes for a steak. Or any meaty or fishy dish. The "Bacon explosion" doesn't count. It's beyond.

While this is true, I confess a small amount of sympathy with Travis' point of view. It took me many years before I stopped automatically avoiding anything that was described to me as "It's good for you!"

And recently there's been a small movement of vegetarian evangelism that attempts to equate a meat-eating diet with the destruction of the global environment, suggesting that going vege is necessary to combat global warming and save civilisation as we know it. That annoys me too.

So yeah, I see where Travis is coming from. It's not about what you do and do not eat, but the proportions in which you eat it.